Crossdressing...Just how does a woman participate?

[RandyWayne]

Originally Posted by Charnock

I guarantee you no Christians dress the same as pre 1920's society. Why do you focus on dresses and pants only? Most men wore suits and hats EVERYWHERE back then.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by RandyWayne

Banana Republic has a "Mad Men" collection this fall - - looks just like this!

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by NorCal

I don't understand how "Christians" can stand for a practice that was born out of rebellion in the 1920's.
May you stand with Cora.

Prove this!

Women started wearing pants when men went off to war and the woman had to go to work outside the home

Fashions have always changed.

Men wore pants because they were the ones fighting and working in the fields.

Men and women have worn pants in history, before the modern era. So, tell us, when man first put on a pair of pants and tossed his skirts or robes, was he being rebellious too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers
Trousers first enter recorded history in the 6th century BCE, with the appearance of horse-riding Iranian peoples in Greek ethnography. At this time, not only the Persians, but also allied Central Asian peoples such as the Bactrians, Armenians, and the Tigraxauda Scythians are known to have worn them.[4][5] Trousers are believed to have been worn by both sexes among these early users

In horse back riding, there is a even a way designed to compensate for a woman rider. It's called SIDESADDLE. It was used for 1000's of years. I think it's funny that we are still having this discussion based on a rebellion and women's lib of the 1920's

Aside from the sidesaddle, you don't have a clue what you are talkikng about. You know what kind of women rode horses all those years? The ones that could afford them. The aristocrats. Those women did not work. They were always dressed to the 9s did not want to ruin their clothing. Dresses for them were the fashions of the day

In Europe, the sidesaddle developed in part because cultural norms for the upper social classes dictated that it was unbecoming for a woman of apparent wealth or high social status to straddle a horse while riding. Further, since long skirts were the required fashion, riding astride in such attire was often impractical and awkward, and it could be "immodest." However, women of status did ride horses and needed to be able to control their own animals, so there was a need for a saddle designed to allow both control of the horse and modesty for the rider

However, in spite of cultural pressures, not all women of the nobility adopted the sidesaddle at all times. Women such as Diane de Poitiers (mistress to Henry II of France) and Marie Antoinette were known to ride astride. Catherine the Great of Russia went so far as to commission a portrait showing her riding astride wearing a male officer's uniform
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidesaddle

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Prove this!

Women started wearing pants when men went off to war and the woman had to go to work outside the home

Fashions have always changed.

Men wore pants because they were the ones fighting and working in the fields.

Men and women have worn pants in history, before the modern era. So, tell us, when man first put on a pair of pants and tossed his skirts or robes, was he being rebellious too?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trousers
Trousers first enter recorded history in the 6th century BCE, with the appearance of horse-riding Iranian peoples in Greek ethnography. At this time, not only the Persians, but also allied Central Asian peoples such as the Bactrians, Armenians, and the Tigraxauda Scythians are known to have worn them.[4][5] Trousers are believed to have been worn by both sexes among these early users


Aside from the sidesaddle, you don't have a clue what you are talkikng about. You know what kind of women rode horses all those years? The ones that could afford them. The aristocrats. Those women did not work. They were always dressed to the 9s did not want to ruin their clothing. Dresses for them were the fashions of the day

In Europe, the sidesaddle developed in part because cultural norms for the upper social classes dictated that it was unbecoming for a woman of apparent wealth or high social status to straddle a horse while riding. Further, since long skirts were the required fashion, riding astride in such attire was often impractical and awkward, and it could be "immodest." However, women of status did ride horses and needed to be able to control their own animals, so there was a need for a saddle designed to allow both control of the horse and modesty for the rider

However, in spite of cultural pressures, not all women of the nobility adopted the sidesaddle at all times. Women such as Diane de Poitiers (mistress to Henry II of France) and Marie Antoinette were known to ride astride. Catherine the Great of Russia went so far as to commission a portrait showing her riding astride wearing a male officer's uniform
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidesaddle

BUMP

[Praxeas]

When the Manchu ruled China during the Qing Dynasty, certain social strata emerged. Among them were the Banners (qí), mostly Manchu, who as a group were called Banner People (旗人 pinyin: qí rén). Manchu women typically wore a one-piece dress that retrospectively came to be known as the qípáo (旗袍 or banner gown). The generic term for both the male and the female forms of Manchu dress, essentially similar garments, was chángpáo (長袍). The qipao fitted loosely and hung straight down the body, or flared slightly in an A-line. Under the dynastic laws after 1636, all Han Chinese in the banner system were forced to wear a queue and dress in Manchurian qipao instead of traditional Han Chinese clothing (剃发易服), under penalty of death (along with the July 1645 edict (the "haircutting order") that forced all adult Han Chinese men to shave the front of their heads and comb the remaining hair into a queue, on pain of death). Until 1911, the changpao was required clothing for Chinese men of a certain class, but Han Chinese women continued to wear loose jacket and trousers, with an overskirt for formal occasions. The qipao was a new fashion item for Han Chinese women when they started wearing it around 1925.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheongsam

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

When the Manchu ruled China during the Qing Dynasty, certain social strata emerged. Among them were the Banners (qí), mostly Manchu, who as a group were called Banner People (旗人 pinyin: qí rén). Manchu women typically wore a one-piece dress that retrospectively came to be known as the qípáo (旗袍 or banner gown). The generic term for both the male and the female forms of Manchu dress, essentially similar garments, was chángpáo (長袍). The qipao fitted loosely and hung straight down the body, or flared slightly in an A-line. Under the dynastic laws after 1636, all Han Chinese in the banner system were forced to wear a queue and dress in Manchurian qipao instead of traditional Han Chinese clothing (剃发易服), under penalty of death (along with the July 1645 edict (the "haircutting order") that forced all adult Han Chinese men to shave the front of their heads and comb the remaining hair into a queue, on pain of death). Until 1911, the changpao was required clothing for Chinese men of a certain class, but Han Chinese women continued to wear loose jacket and trousers, with an overskirt for formal occasions. The qipao was a new fashion item for Han Chinese women when they started wearing it around 1925.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheongsam

That's interesting that they would wear trousers and then a new fashion item, a long dress (qipao), in 1925. I was reading that trousers were introduced off and on in Europe, but only took off in the 16th century.

And, BTW, this article isn't ancient China. The Qing Dynasty timeline was 1644-1911

[rgcraig]

Interesting article:

http://www.propheticrevelation.com/misc/garments.htm

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Narrow Is The Way

I was reading an interesting article about Gender Bender days in our Public Schools.

They were focused on the Male participators who wore dresses and skirts.

My question is: What do the Female participators wear at one of these events?

It requires more than just a pair of pants because pants are normal female attire in our culture (and quite a few others).

If a dress or skirt is considered the opposite of a mans attire, what is the opposite of women's attire?

Which of these are cross dressing? (e.g., trying to pass themselves off as a man)












Oh, and while we're at it...which of THESE two is crossdressing:




Personally, I try my best to wear feminine clothes and encourage my daughters to do the same. My oldest daughter is really into western wear, so my rule of thumb for her is that she can't wear more than one western styled piece of clothing at a time. (Having to pair cowboy boots with a feminine skirt, for instance, reduces the *masculine* appearance.) That said, it takes a LOT more than a pair of pants to push someone into "crossdressing" territory. Hair, mannerisms, walk and talk all matter. We've all seen women who look "butch", and they are NOT your run-of-the-mill women who've thrown on a pair of jeans and a t-shirt to go grab groceries.

Likewise for a man, it takes a lot more than a pink polo shirt to make him look feminine. Unless he's already effeminate in nature and/or he throws a lot of other details in with it, the pink polo means nothing.

This guy isn't particularly feminine either, for that matter:



(And he's wearing a skirt AND ruffles. )

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

This guy isn't particularly feminine either, for that matter:



(And he's wearing a skirt AND ruffles. )

Nothing feminine about him!

[Trouvere]

Originally Posted by Narrow Is The Way

I was reading an interesting article about Gender Bender days in our Public Schools.

They were focused on the Male participators who wore dresses and skirts.

My question is: What do the Female participators wear at one of these events?

If a dress or skirt is considered the opposite of a mans attire, what is the opposite of women's attire?

Maybe we could just all show up with fake moustaches