Crossdressing...Just how does a woman participate?

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Prax posted this information last night in post #206. I'm going to excerpt that. It is saying that until 1911, the women wore loose jackets and trousers. The Qing Dynasty started in 1644, so it could have predated this, but it is not clear. Then in 1925, they switch to a "qipao", which is a long gown. So, out with the pants and in with the long, flowing gown. Deja vu, baby!

And, IMO, it isn't a moot point today as the Orthodox Jewish women still adhere to dresses only.

Do they?

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

Do they?

I've never read it otherwise.

Now, how to dress.

The human body is a lofty medium, a gift from G-d that allows us to use this world in our pursuit of the spiritual. Jewish Law therefore requires that we honor our bodies, that is, ourselves, in recognizing our own holiness, and to dress ourselves with the dignity we and our bodies deserve.

The following is always appropriate, even when not dressing formally.

Clothing must reach up to the collar bone in the front, and to just below the nape of the neck in the back, and it must extend below the knees. Clothing should not be tight or revealing in any way.

Women's legs should be covered with stockings, not necessarily opaque. Taupe or beige are accepted in some communities, others suggest darker colors. Flashy colors, especially of stockings, are not good. The more glaring shades of red are forbidden in any sort of clothing. Men should not wear short pants.

Long sleeves that cover the elbows are also required. This is usually appropriate for both men and women, though it is mandatory only for women. Nevertheless, at a formal occasion mens' sleeves would normally be covered by a jacket. Women should wear dresses or skirts (without slits), but not pants. The dress or skirt should reach below the knees, and stockings should cover the legs until above the knee.

http://www.beingjewish.com/cycle/simchah.html

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

I've never read it otherwise.

I went to the site and it says how to act and dress....at Jewish festive occasions, not necessarily all the time

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Prax posted this information last night in post #206. I'm going to excerpt that. It is saying that until 1911, the women wore loose jackets and trousers. The Qing Dynasty started in 1644, so it could have predated this, but it is not clear. Then in 1925, they switch to a "qipao", which is a long gown. So, out with the pants and in with the long, flowing gown. Deja vu, baby!

And, IMO, it isn't a moot point today as the Orthodox Jewish women still adhere to dresses only.

The "Orthodox Jewish" women represent a cultural strain that has more to do with Medieval Poland than anything properly "Ancient Jewish." Notice - the "Orthodox Jewish" men wear fur hats in Israel. Nobody, nobody, nobody wore a fur hat in Israel in ancient times. Nobody.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by pelathais

The "Orthodox Jewish" women represent a cultural strain that has more to do with Medieval Poland than anything properly "Ancient Jewish." Notice - the "Orthodox Jewish" men wear fur hats in Israel. Nobody, nobody, nobody wore a fur hat in Israel in ancient times. Nobody.

Right, LOL! Does it get as cold in Israel as it does in Poland or Russia? LOL! Thanks for the info and the lengthy post on China! Here's my deal on the China thing. I ran across an article stating that only male soldiers wore trousers in Ancient China. So, I'll have to look at your link and go from there. Thanks again! And again, I am interested in the transition, as part of history, it has nothing to do with standards.

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

Right, LOL! Does it get as cold in Israel as it does in Poland or Russia? LOL! Thanks for the info and the lengthy post on China! Here's my deal on the China thing. I ran across an article stating that only male soldiers wore trousers in Ancient China. So, I'll have to look at your link and go from there. Thanks again! And again, I am interested in the transition, as part of history, it has nothing to do with standards.

The further back one goes, the more transitions one will find. Fashion comes and goes. The needs of people changes as they move around. And, the social conventions of the past may seem stifling to some so they cast them off, only to see a later generation pick them up again.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I wonder how many years it took for the switch from robes to trousers for men to completely happen? During that time period it would have been hotly debated, but now is completely moot. It hasn't been that many years since the switch happened for women, so of course it's still a hot - or at least warm - subject (although MUCH less than it was even 20 years ago). 100 years from now, this debate will probably be ancient history.

Who knows what everyone will be wearing if the world is still here 1000 years from now? One thing you can count on, it will be different than what we wear now. Culture is always changing, and it always will. Men may be back in robes.

The US population will likely be wearing robes and also post Christian. While Christianity is stagnant or in decline, the Muslim religion is rapidly growing.

Prep yourselves for Burkas ladies!

[pelathais]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

The US population will likely be wearing robes and also post Christian. While Christianity is stagnant or in decline, the Muslim religion is rapidly growing.

Prep yourselves for Burkas ladies!

That is quite true. And, one of the reasons for the decline in the Christian faith is that traditionally Christian cultures are unable to find a way to integrate the demands of Fundamentalism and other extremist "Christian" views. This leads to those cultures simply dying of rot. They are suffering huge population declines and have all but stopped breeding.

Meanwhile, the Muslims they have imported to colonized their empty cities are largely uneducated and frequently radicalized by extremists "clerics" who were run out of their own countries by their totalitarian rulers.

Add to it the "guilt" that the European people manipulate themselves with (particularly the Liberal and Socialist governments) and you can see why the whole place is ripe for whole scale Muslim colonization.

It's just like Syria in the 8th Century. Once a hotbed of Christian evangelism and growth, the Byzantines (Greeks) and the Persians had exhausted themselves with a 1,000 year old war and the population was decimated. So, in come the Arabs and Arab/Muslim colonists.

Then, when plague, warfare and malaise caused a population collapse in Anatolia (modern day Turkey) the Byzantines invited Turks to move in to populate the land. So, in came the Muslim Turkish colonists and out went the Greeks, Armenians and other Christians.

And now today... look at Detroit, Dearborn and other parts of Michigan. A population collapse, malaise and economic decline and large scale Muslim immigration. Philadelphia? The last time I was in Philly a Muslim man in a booth on the street screamed at me that I was going to hell because I was white. My black friend who was with me was "saved," and our Hispanic friend was a "maybe" ... but I was going to hell for sure. Thanks, Philly.

Washington DC? L.A.? Chicago? Miami?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by *AQuietPlace*

I wonder how many years it took for the switch from robes to trousers for men to completely happen? During that time period it would have been hotly debated, but now is completely moot. It hasn't been that many years since the switch happened for women, so of course it's still a hot - or at least warm - subject (although MUCH less than it was even 20 years ago). 100 years from now, this debate will probably be ancient history.

Who knows what everyone will be wearing if the world is still here 1000 years from now? One thing you can count on, it will be different than what we wear now. Culture is always changing, and it always will. Men may be back in robes.

Imagine seeing men in pants after robes for centuries. "My land sakes alive! HIS LEGS ARE SEPARATED AND YOU CAN SEE THE FORM OF EACH LEG!!! What is the world coming to?"

[houston]

naw, uc men will NEVER compromise this issue!