I am apostolic

[Jacob's Ladder]

There are so many trinitarians I'm starting to see three of everything!

[AncientPaths]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

You are right... We don't do that.

Scripture is manipulated (by everyone) to make sure it fits into their specific doctrine. Anyone that says they just take all scripture at "face value" is either already looking at it through their filter, or their just kidding themselves.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AncientPaths

Scripture is manipulated (by everyone) to make sure it fits into their specific doctrine. Anyone that says they just take all scripture at "face value" is either already looking at it through their filter, or their just kidding themselves.

What if you discovered that the plain language of Scripture contradicted what you were taught your entire life??? Would you have the integrity to change your position, or at least (as I do) present it's plausibility?

Oneness theology is logical. However, it denies that we can trust the plain words "I and my father are..." and redefines them.

Also, if Jesus is merely the Father existing in a second mode of being... why does Jesus speak as though He's another... when He isn't??? That's a philosophical issue I have with that form of Oneness.

[AncientPaths]

Originally Posted by Aquila

What if you discovered that the plain language of Scripture contradicted what you were taught your entire life??? Would you have the integrity to change your position, or at least (as I do) present it's plausibility?

Oneness theology is logical. However, it denies that we can trust the plain words "I and my father are..." and redefines them.

Also, if Jesus is merely the Father existing in a second mode of being... why does Jesus speak as though He's another... when He isn't??? That's a philosophical issue I have with that form of Oneness.

Agree 100%. There is certainly enough language to present its plausibility. And that's where I stand on it as well. I was raised oneness, and I have strong feelings for that belief, but I think there is evidence that it is often oversimplified for the sake of having a pat, tangible explanation.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by AncientPaths

Agree 100%. There is certainly enough language to present its plausibility. And that's where I stand on it as well. I was raised oneness, and I have strong feelings for that belief, but I think there is evidence that it is often oversimplified for the sake of having a pat, tangible explanation.

Extremely oversimplified.

Also, the mischaracterization of Trinitarianism is rampant in the Oneness camp. Trinitarianism is categorically monotheistic. It's often not explained that the way they use the term "person" is different from how we'd use it when refering to a human being conversationally. In Trinitarianism the term "person" is a clinical theological term denoting the distinct sense of "self" seen within each of God's three, and eternal, modes of existence.

To explain...

If I were manifest in three different places at once... and each of my manifestations could act, think, and speak independently, ... even to the point of communicating with themselves.... each would have a distinct sense of "self" and therefore be a "person", each "person" equally expressing who I am in a different context. I'd be manifest in three distinct "persons". I would be them, and they would be me.

Now, of course these are not merely "manifestations" in Trinitarianism... these are eternal modes of existence of the unchanging God. Therefore each is an "eternal person" by theological definition. Each of them perfectly expresses who God is in different contexts. He is them, and they are Him.