Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore? - Page 16

MawMaw · #1 07-07-2012, 09:02 AM

Yes!

Amanah · #2 07-07-2012, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lacey

Yes!

KeptByTheWord · #3 07-07-2012, 10:23 AM

Personal holiness of spirit, character and dress using moderation in all things is what should have been adopted years ago by the Pentecostal church fathers. Because if that had been the case, we wouldn't have the legalistic mess that we have now.

I believe God does hold his children who have been delivered from the bondage of sin to a higher standard of living. Our personal holiness should be delivered by the Holy Spirit residing in us, convicting each of us personally of things that draw us away from the Lord.

When one enforces his convictions on another, be it family, friend, or in the ministry, then it becomes legalism, legalistic, and not of God. Paul spoke of this many times in his writings, about not judging another in circumcision, holy days, food, feasts, and so on. Those were the cultural issues of the day. The cultural issues have changed but the principle still remains that Paul taught.

IF the Spirit of the Lord convicts you of something, don't assume that same conviction is now supposed to be found in everyone you come in contact with. But live out your conviction, and be true to it, and honor God with it. This is true holiness.

True personal holiness will never come about because it is demanded.

True personal holiness will be a result of a change brought only because of the residence of the Spirit of Jesus in one's life.

Again, in my opinion, IF the OP churches in the beginning of the outpouring of the Spirit ... had begun to teach personal holiness, instead of making things a "standard", perhaps we would not have the terrible mess that we see today in many (not all) but many OP churches.

I am hoping and praying for a return of a spirit of true personal holiness in the churches, so that the truth and gospel of Christ can grow as never before. BUT the growth of these churches will continue be stunted because of the legalistic ideas that are not of God.

Titus2woman · #4 07-07-2012, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

Personal holiness of spirit, character and dress using moderation in all things is what should have been adopted years ago by the Pentecostal church fathers. Because if that had been the case, we wouldn't have the legalistic mess that we have now.

I believe God does hold his children who have been delivered from the bondage of sin to a higher standard of living. Our personal holiness should be delivered by the Holy Spirit residing in us, convicting each of us personally of things that draw us away from the Lord.

When one enforces his convictions on another, be it family, friend, or in the ministry, then it becomes legalism, legalistic, and not of God. Paul spoke of this many times in his writings, about not judging another in circumcision, holy days, food, feasts, and so on. Those were the cultural issues of the day. The cultural issues have changed but the principle still remains that Paul taught.

IF the Spirit of the Lord convicts you of something, don't assume that same conviction is now supposed to be found in everyone you come in contact with. But live out your conviction, and be true to it, and honor God with it. This is true holiness.

True personal holiness will never come about because it is demanded.

True personal holiness will be a result of a change brought only because of the residence of the Spirit of Jesus in one's life.

Again, in my opinion, IF the OP churches in the beginning of the outpouring of the Spirit ... had begun to teach personal holiness, instead of making things a "standard", perhaps we would not have the terrible mess that we see today in many (not all) but many OP churches.

I am hoping and praying for a return of a spirit of true personal holiness in the churches, so that the truth and gospel of Christ can grow as never before. BUT the growth of these churches will continue be stunted because of the legalistic ideas that are not of God.

I love this... and it conveys every thought I have on holiness, on standards and on what is good and right... I could not add one word that would make this more complete in any way.

Thank you.

KeptByTheWord · #5 07-07-2012, 10:27 AM

I might add one scripture reference to further this train of thought, words from the very mouth of Jesus.

Mark 7:7-8 "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandments of God, ye hold the tradition of men..."

hometown guy · #6 07-07-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

I might add one scripture reference to further this train of thought, words from the very mouth of Jesus.

Mark 7:7-8 "Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandments of God, ye hold the tradition of men..."

Don't forget about this scripture...

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

tv1a · #7 07-07-2012, 12:53 PM

Doesn't mean you can make up rules 2,000 years later and call them traditions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Don't forget about this scripture...

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

shag · #8 07-07-2012, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Don't forget about this scripture...

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Traditions "pardosis" is simple the teachings handed down by writing or by mouth.

To compare the "paradosis" of the upci that came from and is because of the 60's hippi era, is nothing short of a disgrace IMO to compare with the "paradosis" taught to the apostles and then passed down/ taught to other disciples. A beard was fine and even oftimes encouraged on a man for the last 6000 years, now some in OP orgs are still gonna even continue to block the ministering of the Holyghost thru disciples of Christ, cause they say "no beards allowed, have a seat".

And then there's the ol' "even burger king (or whoever) don't allow beards so it's ok for us to do the same". Uhhh, the Kingdom of God isn't burger king.

Simply rediculous that so many are held back, I'm glad a few are realizing there is now NO house of God since Pentecost OTHER THAN the human tabernacles God in dwells(per scripture), that can minister to the sinner and needy just as well outside the 4 walls of some "holy building".

KeptByTheWord · #9 07-07-2012, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Don't forget about this scripture...

Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

Why don't you quote the whole verse in context?

2 Thessalonians 2:13-17
But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth:

14Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ.

15Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

16Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

17Comfort your hearts, and stablish you in every good word and work.

You'll notice the difference between the verse in Mark 7, and the verse here is that Jesus said "the traditions of men" in Mark 7. Here in II Thes. Paul is underscoring the importance of the gospel message, which has given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace, to comfort your hearts, and establish you in every good word and work.

These are NOT the traditions of "men" (Jesus was speaking in reference to the Talmud writings in Mark 7) Paul here is referring to the gospel of hope that we have been given by Christ Jesus.

Big difference.

Esaias · #10 07-09-2012, 08:46 AM

Seems to me there are two 'traditions' in Scripture.

One: the traditions of men, whether Talmudic or Gentile, which all too often 'make void the Word of God.'

Two: the traditions handed down by the apostles (and recorded in the New Testament writings) and intended by them to be kept by the ekklesia of God.

The first group are to be avoided, shunned, rejected, and counted as they are - dung.

The second group are to embraced, admired, received, and counted as they are - the Word of God.

The traditions of men are still around.

So are the traditions of God's church. Those apostolic traditions are not 'culture dependent', limited to the first century church only. They transcended both the Jewish and Gentile cultures of the day, and therefore we have every reason (absent a clear Scriptural statement to the contrary) to expect them to be for the church throughout all ages at least until Jesus returns.

Things such as baptism, laying on of hands, public preaching of the Word, refusing to go to law before the secular courts with a brother, the Lord's supper... in short, ALL that the apostles taught the church to believe and practice, are the 'standards' of the church of God.

Everything else is commentary.