Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by Andrew8383

Most of my Sunday school teachers, friends from church, pastors family have all backslid. This is from my childhood not my current church. My current pastor still believes in the old standards and ways, which I love. I'm the Youth Pastor and I know the bible speaks of the great falling away but it makes me so angry to see this. Anyone else notice this in their area?

This is the button to push when one wants to spur discussion about why some are on a higher spiritual plane and those who leave are "backslid".

If you want to know why people "backslide" from the organized church system, just ask them.

It has been my experience that many apostolics do not want to know or won't accept any answer given to them because it is too hard for them to understand where the "backslider" comes from.


Now here is a question for you...do you know for certain, without a shadow of a doubt that all people who leave the church system are backslid from God?

[Pilgrum]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

This is the button to push when one wants to spur discussion about why some are on a higher spiritual plane and those who leave are "backslid".

If you want to know why people "backslide" from the organized church system, just ask them.

It has been my experience that many apostolics do not want to know or won't accept any answer given to them because it is too hard for them to understand where the "backslider" comes from.


Now here is a question for you...do you know for certain, without a shadow of a doubt that all people who leave the church system are backslid from God?

Perhaps it's because those that leave must be deceived and per chance that deception would infect the inquirer and result in their demise also? You know how fragile our salvation is.

Or could it be that they do not want to know because if presented an alternative view point they then have to evaluate that view and make a decision whether it is viable or not. It is so much easier to only listen to what you already know and believe than to face a challenge. Don't nobody rock my boat. You know, like Jesus rocked some fishermen's boat.

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

This is the button to push when one wants to spur discussion about why some are on a higher spiritual plane and those who leave are "backslid".

I find this phenomenon with people. People who leave the Church are generally the one's that point back and make references to them "being on a higher spiritual plane". It's rooted in bitterness.

They feel offended because they are labeled as backsliders, so they allow that seed of bitterness to creep in their hearts and control their outlook on the Church.

For the record, I hold that anyone who slides away from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message is considered backslidden. No other way to describe it.

It has been my experience that many apostolics do not want to know or won't accept any answer given to them because it is too hard for them to understand where the "backslider" comes from.

I'm sorry this has been your experience.

Now here is a question for you...do you know for certain, without a shadow of a doubt that all people who leave the church system are backslid from God?

I know without a shadow of a doubt that all people who backslide from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message are backslid from God.

Acts 2:38, 1 God, and Holiness is what it's gonna take for anyone to see the Father. I'm in the book here.

If people wanna leave the WPF, AA, ALJC, UPCI, UAC, or whatever Apostolic organization you can come up with, and they go independent that's one thing.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

I find this phenomenon with people. People who leave the Church are generally the one's that point back and make references to them "being on a higher spiritual plane". It's rooted in bitterness.

They feel offended because they are labeled as backsliders, so they allow that seed of bitterness to creep in their hearts and control their outlook on the Church.

Phenomenon?

For those of you who are Holy Ghost filled, loving men and women of God, this post is not for you. For those of you who are making efforts to live the best way you know how for God, this post is not for you. I recognize that there are many kind and loving Spirit-filled people in the Pentecostal ranks. So please do not take this post into yourselves. It is not for you.
And Brother Joe, I am thinking that this post is not even for you because when I was your age, I had the same responses. Frankly, I just did not know what kind reaction I was contributing to from people who were trying to tell me something with those responses I once had.

My response to your post:
So why do some of you people label others as "backsliders" when you know nothing about the other person? What purpose can you possibly have hidden in your heart to even have the need to LABEL somebody else as backslidden unless you want to describe other people who do not agree to some of your standards in a negative way?

You people react to negativism in the same manner as the "backslidden". Only you people use the many Bible verses to throw at the people you people reject because of the club rules and then chortle "It's bible". Yet, very few of you people will take a step to help restore people that are labeled "backslidden" by your group.

If there is any root of bitterness in people's heart, it is because the root came from some of you so-called Apostolics in the first place with all your man made rules and superior attitudes of you must obey "the man of God".

Don't you know that everybody who has the Holy Ghost is a man of God or a woman of God? Not just those who go to the Seminary or get Ordination papers by another group of people. It is who God makes righteous for only God can see what is inside a person's heart. All the rest of us, pentecostal or not, should take the attitude that our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Yeah I know out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. But some of you call it "root of bitterness" when you do not want to listen to how the people feel. I can speak of phenomenons likewise. That is a phenomenon where people cannot engage in honest dialogue because they do not want to hear how the other person feels nor expend any energy changing themselves and conforming to the actual Word of God in the Bible. Or they just do not want to leave other people alone to work out their own salvation with the Lord. Charity covers a multitude of sins right?

Sorry. I don't buy your statement. Many Apostolics deliberately shut people out of their church system by the way they treat others who do not agree with them. Those type of people are afraid of the very things Pilgrum mentioned. And I don't think most Apostolics are sorry for the experience they help contribute to a person who leaves, then labels them to be a "backslider". Some Apostolics tear down their own house, then blame it on their victims.

Originally Posted by BroJoe

For the record, I hold that anyone who slides away from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message is considered backslidden. No other way to describe it.

I'm sorry this has been your experience.

I know without a shadow of a doubt that all people who backslide from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message are backslid from God.

Acts 2:38, 1 God, and Holiness is what it's gonna take for anyone to see the Father. I'm in the book here.

If people wanna leave the WPF, AA, ALJC, UPCI, UAC, or whatever Apostolic organization you can come up with, and they go independent that's one thing.

There are many people who hold to Acts 2:38 and believe it with all their heart. But there are many in your ranks who only look upon the outward appearance and determine that they are "backslid" and treat them horribly. I think that is arrogance to make such a determination in this manner. You may not do this, but there are plenty of people who do and others who play follow the leader.

I feel that most people who do leave is not because they reject Acts 2:38 at all. But more likely they reject the treatment they receive at the hands of the Apostolics for asking questions, for disagreeing with other things taught that are extra biblical.

The Bible has specifics about a brother or sister who is backslid.


9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. I Corinthians 6:9,10

And
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

But many of the pentecostals lump the cutting of hair, the relaxing of the dress "standards" cosmetics, and used to be beards and mustaches for men etc to be
the measuring stick to tell who is backslid or on their way.

Heh. I've found people who are supposedly "in the church" guilty of one or more of the above scriptures, yet because they adhere to those "standards" they continue to just click right along.

Furthermore, there are many "holiness" people who go out of their way to persecute the labeled "backslid" instead of looking at themselves and the things they say and do that played a part in people leaving the system. They look at the "backslid" and accuse them of having a root of bitterness, all the while they themselves have a controlling, unkind and unloving greedy spirit.

And...there are some out there that preach outright lies for reasons only known to God and to them. You see we may not know these reasons, but God surely does and it does not mean we have to sit in a pew and become indoctrinated with it.

[KeptByTheWord]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Phenomenon?

For those of you who are Holy Ghost filled, loving men and women of God, this post is not for you. For those of you who are making efforts to live the best way you know how for God, this post is not for you. I recognize that there are many kind and loving Spirit-filled people in the Pentecostal ranks. So please do not take this post into yourselves. It is not for you.
And Brother Joe, I am thinking that this post is not even for you because when I was your age, I had the same responses. Frankly, I just did not know what kind reaction I was contributing to from people who were trying to tell me something with those responses I once had.

My response to your post:
So why do some of you people label others as "backsliders" when you know nothing about the other person? What purpose can you possibly have hidden in your heart to even have the need to LABEL somebody else as backslidden unless you want to describe other people who do not agree to some of your standards in a negative way?

You people react to negativism in the same manner as the "backslidden". Only you people use the many Bible verses to throw at the people you people reject because of the club rules and then chortle "It's bible". Yet, very few of you people will take a step to help restore people that are labeled "backslidden" by your group.

If there is any root of bitterness in people's heart, it is because the root came from some of you so-called Apostolics in the first place with all your man made rules and superior attitudes of you must obey "the man of God".

Don't you know that everybody who has the Holy Ghost is a man of God or a woman of God? Not just those who go to the Seminary or get Ordination papers by another group of people. It is who God makes righteous for only God can see what is inside a person's heart. All the rest of us, pentecostal or not, should take the attitude that our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Yeah I know out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. But some of you call it "root of bitterness" when you do not want to listen to how the people feel. I can speak of phenomenons likewise. That is a phenomenon where people cannot engage in honest dialogue because they do not want to hear how the other person feels nor expend any energy changing themselves and conforming to the actual Word of God in the Bible. Or they just do not want to leave other people alone to work out their own salvation with the Lord. Charity covers a multitude of sins right?

Sorry. I don't buy your statement. Many Apostolics deliberately shut people out of their church system by the way they treat others who do not agree with them. Those type of people are afraid of the very things Pilgrum mentioned. And I don't think most Apostolics are sorry for the experience they help contribute to a person who leaves, then labels them to be a "backslider". Some Apostolics tear down their own house, then blame it on their victims.




There are many people who hold to Acts 2:38 and believe it with all their heart. But there are many in your ranks who only look upon the outward appearance and determine that they are "backslid" and treat them horribly. I think that is arrogance to make such a determination in this manner. You may not do this, but there are plenty of people who do and others who play follow the leader.

I feel that most people who do leave is not because they reject Acts 2:38 at all. But more likely they reject the treatment they receive at the hands of the Apostolics for asking questions, for disagreeing with other things taught that are extra biblical.

The Bible has specifics about a brother or sister who is backslid.


9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. I Corinthians 6:9,10

And
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

But many of the pentecostals lump the cutting of hair, the relaxing of the dress "standards" cosmetics, and used to be beards and mustaches for men etc to be
the measuring stick to tell who is backslid or on their way.

Heh. I've found people who are supposedly "in the church" guilty of one or more of the above scriptures, yet because they adhere to those "standards" they continue to just click right along.

Furthermore, there are many "holiness" people who go out of their way to persecute the labeled "backslid" instead of looking at themselves and the things they say and do that played a part in people leaving the system. They look at the "backslid" and accuse them of having a root of bitterness, all the while they themselves have a controlling, unkind and unloving greedy spirit.

And...there are some out there that preach outright lies for reasons only known to God and to them. You see we may not know these reasons, but God surely does and it does not mean we have to sit in a pew and become indoctrinated with it.

Wonderful post AYR!

I might also sum up what I believe about being Apostolic as this.

Living as the early church apostolics did, bringing about works produced by the SPIRIT, and not works produced by our flesh.

Big difference.

We can be Ananias and Sapphira on the outside manifesting all the appropriate flesh works, but are we like Paul and other apostles, producing works and fruit supporting the evidence of the Spirit of Christ indwelling us?

There is a big difference between works that our flesh produce, as opposed to the works and fruit of the Holy Spirit.

Remember Ananias and Sapphira, and compare their works with say, the works of Stephen or Paul....

How are you measuring up in the eyes of God, INSTEAD of the eyes of man?

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by KeptByTheWord

How are you measuring up in the eyes of God, INSTEAD of the eyes of man?

Fear God.

Obey the Holy Spirit.

Quench not the Holy Spirit.

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by AreYouReady?

Phenomenon?

For those of you who are Holy Ghost filled, loving men and women of God, this post is not for you. For those of you who are making efforts to live the best way you know how for God, this post is not for you. I recognize that there are many kind and loving Spirit-filled people in the Pentecostal ranks. So please do not take this post into yourselves. It is not for you.
And Brother Joe, I am thinking that this post is not even for you because when I was your age, I had the same responses. Frankly, I just did not know what kind reaction I was contributing to from people who were trying to tell me something with those responses I once had.

My response to your post:
So why do some of you people label others as "backsliders" when you know nothing about the other person? What purpose can you possibly have hidden in your heart to even have the need to LABEL somebody else as backslidden unless you want to describe other people who do not agree to some of your standards in a negative way?

You people react to negativism in the same manner as the "backslidden". Only you people use the many Bible verses to throw at the people you people reject because of the club rules and then chortle "It's bible". Yet, very few of you people will take a step to help restore people that are labeled "backslidden" by your group.

If there is any root of bitterness in people's heart, it is because the root came from some of you so-called Apostolics in the first place with all your man made rules and superior attitudes of you must obey "the man of God".

Don't you know that everybody who has the Holy Ghost is a man of God or a woman of God? Not just those who go to the Seminary or get Ordination papers by another group of people. It is who God makes righteous for only God can see what is inside a person's heart. All the rest of us, pentecostal or not, should take the attitude that our righteousness is as filthy rags.

Yeah I know out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. But some of you call it "root of bitterness" when you do not want to listen to how the people feel. I can speak of phenomenons likewise. That is a phenomenon where people cannot engage in honest dialogue because they do not want to hear how the other person feels nor expend any energy changing themselves and conforming to the actual Word of God in the Bible. Or they just do not want to leave other people alone to work out their own salvation with the Lord. Charity covers a multitude of sins right?

Sorry. I don't buy your statement. Many Apostolics deliberately shut people out of their church system by the way they treat others who do not agree with them. Those type of people are afraid of the very things Pilgrum mentioned. And I don't think most Apostolics are sorry for the experience they help contribute to a person who leaves, then labels them to be a "backslider". Some Apostolics tear down their own house, then blame it on their victims.




There are many people who hold to Acts 2:38 and believe it with all their heart. But there are many in your ranks who only look upon the outward appearance and determine that they are "backslid" and treat them horribly. I think that is arrogance to make such a determination in this manner. You may not do this, but there are plenty of people who do and others who play follow the leader.

I feel that most people who do leave is not because they reject Acts 2:38 at all. But more likely they reject the treatment they receive at the hands of the Apostolics for asking questions, for disagreeing with other things taught that are extra biblical.

The Bible has specifics about a brother or sister who is backslid.


9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. I Corinthians 6:9,10

And
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. Galatians 5:19-21

But many of the pentecostals lump the cutting of hair, the relaxing of the dress "standards" cosmetics, and used to be beards and mustaches for men etc to be
the measuring stick to tell who is backslid or on their way.

Heh. I've found people who are supposedly "in the church" guilty of one or more of the above scriptures, yet because they adhere to those "standards" they continue to just click right along.

Furthermore, there are many "holiness" people who go out of their way to persecute the labeled "backslid" instead of looking at themselves and the things they say and do that played a part in people leaving the system. They look at the "backslid" and accuse them of having a root of bitterness, all the while they themselves have a controlling, unkind and unloving greedy spirit.

And...there are some out there that preach outright lies for reasons only known to God and to them. You see we may not know these reasons, but God surely does and it does not mean we have to sit in a pew and become indoctrinated with it.

I'm sorry you have had these experiences. Not the way Christ intended it to be.

Your entire response can best be directed at those who abuse and twist people who have slidden away.

Again. Anyone who has left Acts 2:38, One God, and Holiness are considered backslidden, and I will not fellowship with them after that point. That's Bible too, by the way.

[AreYouReady?]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

I'm sorry you have had these experiences. Not the way Christ intended it to be.

Your entire response can best be directed at those who abuse and twist people who have slidden away.

Again. Anyone who has left Acts 2:38, One God, and Holiness are considered backslidden, and I will not fellowship with them after that point. That's Bible too, by the way.

Ahh....I see your premise and I do not think you realize the arrogance of your statements.

There are a lot of things that "are Bible" that some of the leadership does not obey. I see that they conclude some of modern living to be of the world and preach against those things that they can abide by, but engage themselves in many other things that are of the world such as the love of money and of material possessions. Some of them do not preach that it is just as worldly to buy a very expensive Lexus, SUVs, Cadillacs etc. for example.


Don't be surprised that at some point in the future you find yourself to be alone...because you are disfellowshipped by others for some perceived fault.

Let me just add that in the past 32 years, in this region, I have never seen a Pastor who sat their own children down for doing the very same things that they have sat other people down for.

I have never seen a Pastor disfellowship their own children who commit adultery, have sex out of legal wedlock, have babies out of legal wedlock, put on shorts and slacks, cut their hair and put on makeup.

My first pastor committed adultery. None of us believed it. None from the district leadership came to talk to our church fellowship like the adults we were about the accusation against our pastor. The preachers were squabbling amongst themselves of what to do with a church that was about to be without a pastor. They never asked the people what they would like. All this happened right at the time my husband and I were about to be married. My pastor and my husband's assistant pastor co-officated our marriage. Afterwards, my husband's assistant pastor left because he would not fellowship or eat after our marriage ceremony because my Pastor was there.

Yet, when this pastor's daughter sinned and then abandoned the standards, he did not disfellowship her. He eats dinner with her and attended her wedding with her new husband. Why the double standard? Or is blood thicker than water?

Nevertheless, he had to eat his hat concerning his beliefs when it came to his own blood. Something most of us would do because we are only human.

I have never seen a Pastor step down when their church splits because of some action he took that caused disunity of the body. They just move a few miles and start another church. Or they ask the ones who rightfully disagree with the action to leave and find another church. Let's not forget that the Pastor sends his comments ahead to the rest of the churches before they get there, sometimes in the effort to discredit the saints.

Not one Oneness Apostolic church in this region has an outreach to the lost. They will take up an offering after all the other offerings are taken up ..a one time deal. No benevolent funds, but ready to crucify people over man-defined holiness of outward appearance if it does not measure up.

Yes, I do agree that we will all have to stand before our Creator at the end of the age to answer for our deeds. One of the precise reasons why I will not get caught up in the legalistic teachings of some of these churches. I fear God and I truly want to do what is right in His sight. I have felt no condemnation because I trim my hair or wear conservative slacks that are rather baggy most of the time. Even if I wear shorts on these hot days, the shorts are down at my knees or below (capris) That is the length of skirts and dresses.

I am not far from being considered to be elderly. I do not hate these inconsistencies from church to church teachings. I do not hate the preachers with the double standards, as I understand that they are subjected to like human frailties like the rest of us. But I will not subject myself or my loved ones for spiritual abuse while their loved ones actions are being justified.

I do not despise your youth. I find it commendable that you want to live for Christ. Just remember these things if or when you become faced with the prospect of your own loved ones leaving what you consider "holiness". You will see as you grow older that people will disappoint you. You will wonder why your superiors will cover up their indiscretions , while they expose other people's indiscretions.

I hope that you remember to show love and mercy to those who despitefully use you for their own gain. It happens more often than you think.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

[Walks_in_islam]

Interesting on what you declare is bible or not bible.

Your words:

Anyone who has left Acts 2:38, One God, and Holiness are considered backslidden, and I will not fellowship with them after that point. That's Bible too, by the way.

Actual bible:

My brothers and sisters, if one of you should wander from the truth and someone should bring that person back, remember this: Whoever turns a sinner from the error of their way will save them from death and cover over a multitude of sins.

I am guessing that your fruits are falling?

Originally Posted by BroJoe

I'm sorry you have had these experiences. Not the way Christ intended it to be.

Your entire response can best be directed at those who abuse and twist people who have slidden away.

Again. Anyone who has left Acts 2:38, One God, and Holiness are considered backslidden, and I will not fellowship with them after that point. That's Bible too, by the way.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

I find this phenomenon with people. People who leave the Church are generally the one's that point back and make references to them "being on a higher spiritual plane". It's rooted in bitterness.

They feel offended because they are labeled as backsliders, so they allow that seed of bitterness to creep in their hearts and control their outlook on the Church.

For the record, I hold that anyone who slides away from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message is considered backslidden. No other way to describe it.



I'm sorry this has been your experience.




I know without a shadow of a doubt that all people who backslide from this Acts 2:38, 1 God, Apostolic message are backslid from God.

Acts 2:38, 1 God, and Holiness is what it's gonna take for anyone to see the Father. I'm in the book here.

If people wanna leave the WPF, AA, ALJC, UPCI, UAC, or whatever Apostolic organization you can come up with, and they go independent that's one thing.

I find that finger pointers and the so called "bitter" are in the groups "Those that left" and "those that stayed"

I think most people agree with Holiness, we just don't all agree that some orgs "standard" of "outward Holiness" applies to everyone as God's idea of Holiness