Is there anyone who is Apostolic anymore?

[acerrak]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

Nope, that's not what I said. I said if my Pastor says to be clean shaven while on the platform, I obey.

I don't believe my Pastor makes it out to be a Heaven or Hell issue either. He just prefers the members on the platform to be clean shaven. We have people in our Church that wear mustaches and they are accepted just fine. Hope this helps.

did Christ teach this if not then he doesnt need to teach it behind the pullpit.

spiritual obedience is not to be used for legalism which what you have described is.

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by acerrak

did Christ teach this if not then he doesnt need to teach it behind the pullpit.

spiritual obedience is not to be used for legalism which what you have described is.

'Come out from among them and be ye separate saith the Lord.'

Being clean shaven is a way of making ourselves separate from the mess this world has entrenched itself in. This is my understanding and my conviction.

By the way, I've never heard my Pastor say from behind the pulpit that all men need to be shaven because it's in the Bible and you'll go to hell if you don't.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

Nope, that's not what I said. I said if my Pastor says to be clean shaven while on the platform, I obey.

I don't believe my Pastor makes it out to be a Heaven or Hell issue either. He just prefers the members on the platform to be clean shaven. We have people in our Church that wear mustaches and they are accepted just fine. Hope this helps.

Very well.

Do you see how this unfettered deference could be problematic to "proving all things"? How about not eating red meat, or sex only for the purpose of procreation, or a pastor requiring, then laying claim to, all tithe income?

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Very well.

Do you see how this unfettered deference could be problematic to "proving all things"? How about not eating red meat, or sex only for the purpose of procreation, or a pastor requiring, then laying claim to, all tithe income?

For nearly all of those examples, the Bible tells me that if I'm in the presence of one of my brothers or sisters who doesn't eat red meat because they feel (for whatever reason) God would be displeased, the last thing I would do is order me a big ole medium rare steak and eat it in front of them. Why? Because I would create a stumbling block for them.

There is a principle in this when Paul was talking about this in his letter to the Church at Corinth.

I want to edify people, not tear them down. I want to encourage them. Not level their faith in God.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by BroJoe

For nearly all of those examples, the Bible tells me that if I'm in the presence of one of my brothers or sisters who doesn't eat red meat because they feel (for whatever reason) God would be displeased, the last thing I would do is order me a big ole medium rare steak and eat it in front of them. Why? Because I would create a stumbling block for them.

There is a principle in this when Paul was talking about this in his letter to the Church at Corinth.

I want to edify people, not tear them down. I want to encourage them. Not level their faith in God.

I think maybe I'm with you... at least as long as they concede there is no great salvific virtue in not eating red meat.

So we have established it is primarily a personal thing. A pastor should not eat that steak, and cease from having someone shave if the one he fellowships believes it to be something of a stumblingblock.

Realizing it might get complicated to avoid offense with so many, I would primarily use the scripture as a default position on doing, eating and wearing.

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

I think maybe I'm with you... at least as long as they concede there is no great salvific virtue in not eating red meat.

So we have established it is primarily a personal thing. A pastor should not eat that steak, and cease from having someone shave if the one he fellowships believes it to be something of a stumblingblock.

Realizing it might get complicated to avoid offense with so many, I would primarily use the scripture as a default position on doing, eating and wearing.

Yes, exactly!

[Walks_in_islam]

...I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard....

A pastor who teaches that a beard is prohibited then teaches salvation by one who had his beard plucked for the sins of the saved is following neither the teachings of the apostles nor of Jesus who they followed

Pehaps those who have turned away have turned from following such pastors to following Jesus. This should make you rejoice, not sad.

Originally Posted by BroJoe

Nope, that's not what I said. I said if my Pastor says to be clean shaven while on the platform, I obey.

I don't believe my Pastor makes it out to be a Heaven or Hell issue either. He just prefers the members on the platform to be clean shaven. We have people in our Church that wear mustaches and they are accepted just fine. Hope this helps.

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

...I offered my back to those who beat me, my cheeks to those who pulled out my beard....

A pastor who teaches that a beard is prohibited then teaches salvation by one who had his beard plucked for the sins of the saved is following neither the teachings of the apostles nor of Jesus who they followed

Pehaps those who have turned away have turned from following such pastors to following Jesus. This should make you rejoice, not sad.

Context, context, context.

Say it with me...

[Walks_in_islam]

Say this with me: It is false teaching to teach that things that are not in the bible are critical or matter to salvation

Your pastor would toss Jesus himself from his stage. Thus the falling away of those who would wish to follow Jesus rather than those such as your pastor. Or you, if you teach these things. Your sadness is the sadness of one who loses gain for only himself.

Originally Posted by BroJoe

Context, context, context.

Say it with me...

[BroJoe]

Originally Posted by Walks_in_islam

Say this with me: It is false teaching to teach that things that are not in the bible are critical or matter to salvation

No argument here.

I, nor my Pastor teach nothing added to the foundational doctrinal message of salvation.

Your pastor would toss Jesus himself from his stage.

You don't know my Pastor, unless I'm mistaken?

Thus the falling away of those who would wish to follow Jesus rather than those such as your pastor. Or you, if you teach these things. Your sadness is the sadness of one who loses gain for only himself.

If you're gonna follow Jesus, you better be following a pastor and submitting to the 5 fold ministry. God uses authority and offices that he's ordained. Period.

He will not ever say "Forget having a Pastor, all you need is to listen to me."

Sorry.