Catholicism & Women

[MissBrattified]

Reposted from my facebook page for discussion:

A couple of interesting comments from Catholic women:

"I was taken by surprise how much healing has taken place inside myself, my marriage, and my feelings about motherhood as a result of being immersed in a culture that gives great honor to the God bearer. It still amazes me how much value is given to strong [women]."

"I cannot even BEGIN to list how learning to understand Mary and venerating her has helped me be a better mother and wife. The effects of being submersed in this Catholic Culture has helped my marriage, 100% and it's not in some submissive way, these men (husbands and priests alike) are devoted to the Holy Mother. That devotion spills over to the other women in their lives. I've never felt so empowered as a woman and a wife."

Don't worry; I'm not looking to convert to Catholicism. However, I thought these comments were intriguing, and I wonder at the disrespect for women in general that seems common in some denominations--doctrines that focus on the failure of Eve, the alleged inherent weakness [of character?] of women and the woman's seemingly inferior position to her husband and authority figures. I'm not for deifying Mary, but I do acknowledge that God bestowed a great honor upon women and Mary in particular by using her to bring His flesh into the world. Does a disrespect for women in Christianity begin with a lack of regard for how God honored women in history? What are your thoughts? Any reactions to the posted comments?

[Michael The Disciple]

I see very little disrespect for women as far as Churches go. The rising tide is most certainly of women gaining power. Everywhere you look now there are women Pastors, co Pastors, and Youtube reveals a great number of women apostles.

Women may be disrespected in their private homes in individual cases but men seem to be belittled on a regular basis. I think respect is just vanishing among the human race in general.

A good friend of mine went Catholic some years ago. It was shocking. He had preached against Rome very hard for long years. I didnt see him for about a year then somehow he got caught up in it. Some said he did it for a woman. I heard about her but never met her.

Anything is possible. I know the famous Politicians tend to be Catholics. I cant remember ever meeting a Catholic that seemed like a true Christian.

[houston]

I've considered returning to mama Rome to attend seminary.

I have met devout Catholics that are more "Christian" than many apo/pents that I have met.

[ILG]

I have considered returning to the Catholic church.....not because I believe in it, really, but because it is my heritage and I would like to hang my hat somewhere....it would be nice to feel like I'm "home" and that might be the Catholic church because the UPC rejected me and I don't think I would ever feel at home there again even though much of my heart and soul was in it.

I never felt less than in the catholic church as a woman. When I first got into the UPC, I felt lifted up as a woman and respected although that degenerated in time as I became a preacher and the anti-women as preachers and women as inferior became evident.

On the flip side, in the catholic church, women are not allowed to become priests. I think, in religion, what matters most, is how doctrines are PRACTICED and not what is parroted as belief. If the men respect the women, it speaks volumes. Disrespect can happen anywhere under any doctrine.

[Pressing-On]

I believe that any woman, following her heart, and being satisfied in any setting of her choosing will have positive things to say.

You will also be able, in that very setting, find a set of women with a different story to tell.

My aunt can tell you about her affair with our parish priest.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by ILG

I have considered returning to the Catholic church.....not because I believe in it, really, but because it is my heritage and I would like to hang my hat somewhere....it would be nice to feel like I'm "home" and that might be the Catholic church because the UPC rejected me and I don't think I would ever feel at home there again even though much of my heart and soul was in it.

I never felt less than in the catholic church as a woman. When I first got into the UPC, I felt lifted up as a woman and respected although that degenerated in time as I became a preacher and the anti-women as preachers and women as inferior became evident.

On the flip side, in the catholic church, women are not allowed to become priests. I think, in religion, what matters most, is how doctrines are PRACTICED and not what is parroted as belief. If the men respect the women, it speaks volumes. Disrespect can happen anywhere under any doctrine.

True. The comments simply surprised me; it had never occurred to me that there might be a connection between respect for the "God-bearer" and women in general. It does make sense, though, that men who are accustomed to "venerating" Mary might also be accustomed to honoring women in general.

There will be exceptions since all denominations are comprised of human beings and some of them are going to be generally disrespectful people and some will even by misogynists. I'm not really holding up the Catholic church as the paragon of all that would feel good to a woman; I'm more intrigued by the idea that the philosophy behind respecting Mary would have spillover into real life.

MTD,

Many times disrespect is subtle and even hard to clearly explain. I have been in churches where all problems, whether church, community, family, children, etc., were attributed to women at the root and the response of leadership was to put the women in their place. Other times it was less obvious, and more of a dismissive attitude. Most of my life I have felt respected by the leaders and men in my life, although not necessarily empowered. There have been exceptions, and times when I felt completely unappreciated and disrespected because of my gender and nothing else. Perhaps a better term would be "valued." Maybe women aren't always blatantly disrespected, but they are undervalued for sure. Of course, there are issues with men and male roles being undervalued and devalued as well. I'm only focusing on this topic because it's on my mind; not because I discount disrespect to men or because I believe women need to fill male roles in order to be respected.

I do agree with you that being respectful is generally a vanishing art. People are disrespectful to God, others and themselves. That bleeds over into the church world.

[ILG]

I think people look at the good in a religion when they are generally being respected and at the bad in a religion when they are not because religions make morality and respect of others their highest goals and they are their biggest bragging rights. Therefore, when religions fail, people will automatically criticize them harshly because the religions held themselves up so high as better than others (especially if they hold themselves up as better than other religions) and when they are not, they deserve the criticism they get as being hypocritical, more or less.

[Titus2woman]

I have seen a lot of disrespect of women in our former Apostolic church. It was the heartbreak of a lifetime that my once loyal and loving husband, the one who was so proud of me as I made my way through school and raised our family was suddenly ashamed of me in the OP world. I was too loud, too frank, too much of a know-it-all... I could not dress myself right, get my hair fixed right, conduct myself right. Our time in the movement almost cost us our marriage of nearly 30 years. I finally told Don he should just divorce me and find the perfect Pentecostal wife (just add water). I fully expected when I dropped out I would be known as one of those Jezebel women who drug her family out of church for want of makeup and jewelry (neither of which interested me at that time) as that is presumably what happened to most disappearing families according to ministry. Women as a whole were portrayed very badly in that church, as you describe.

I grew up in the Catholic church and women were valued and cherished. The stories of Mary and of the women who cared for Jesus and were with him to the end were always at the forefront. And yes, I do believe it helps the level of respect for women in exactly the way you are supposing.

[Dedicated Mind]

i've heard it taught that the reverence and honor for our physical mothers is what inspires reverence and veneration for mary, not the other way around. just a thought.

[AreYouReady?]

I remember the nuns treating all of us who went to public school bad. I was scared of my catechism teacher, a nun, who had to work an extra hour each week teaching us. I supposed that she felt as catholics, we ought to have been enrolled in Parochial School. We were slapped, yelled...no...screamed at, made to stand while all the rest had seats when day and night classes came together for procession practice. I was questioned a lot as to why my parents did not put me into parochial school. Simple fact was that we were poor and public school was free at that time. She yelled at me defending the "measly" cost of tuition.


I missed something during catechism classes...and that was to take off my little white gloves during communion. Afterwards, the nun got us into the classroom where she ripped into me in front of all the other children. She screamed at me that I ruined the entire first Holy Communion! It felt like the castigation went on for an hour although I feel fairly confident it only lasted a few minutes.


My sister has a totally different experience as a Catholic. She remains Catholic to this day.

Maybe that is one reason as to why I do not see the veneration of Mary as lessons of elevating women as many of the Catholic men and women see it?

Perhaps my validation in being a woman is in reading how Christ treated women with respect.

When the realization of who Christ is...that salvation is in Him only, because of His shed blood, actually penetrated my gray matter, it made it easy to completely walk away from Catholic traditions and mass.

But yes, it was better leaving the RCC than it was UPC because I truly expected better treatment since "truth" is always inserted in discussion and lessons.