Bombshell- Considering going back to the UPC

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by webe123

Let me ask some on this board a question...what makes you so BITTER that you HATE the UPCI that much?

I know there are other organizations like the ALJC that believe in Jesus name baptisim, but the only organization that is trashed constantly on this forum is the UPCI....care to explain why?

Let me explain this as best as I can.

Yes there may be some people who are bitter and hate the UPCI, but hopefully the Lord will work on them to get over those feelings.

However pointing out where an organization has gone to extremes can not be rightly called "hate".

When the priests, kings and Israel went wrong, God sent them prophets to point out their defects and bring them back to him.

Those prophets hollered and thundered against Israel, does it mean they hated Israel and wanted to see it destroyed?

No of course not.

Jeremiah loved God and loved his people, ye he fulminated against Israel for their wrongs. The enemies of Jeremiah were under the impression that he was against them and "Hated" them, but we know that was not true, for Jermiah wrote lamentations where he wept for Israel.

Of course no one likes it when their church or organization be criticized and that is normal.

However the Bible does say
"Faithful are the wounds of a friend"
Who really wants to be wounded, no one in their right mind.
But sometimes things have to be said that will wound.

I have often defended the UPCI in my posts because I consider them brethren, I have no ill will toward them and I wish them the best.

However I am not going to accept their man made rules as gospel or as "holiness" as they insist.

I would not be welcomed at a UPCI church for I believe in the Bible and if it is not in the Bible, I simply consider it a man-made rule, perhaps good intentioned but still a man-made rule.

The pharisees also fell into this mind set.
They created extra-rules to add to what already God had commanded, they wanted to build a hedge around the law. However eventually they elevated their man-made rules to the point that they consider them like if God himself had given those rules.

But as Jesus pointed out, their own rules or "traditions" eventually nullified the actual commandments of God.

Why the other oneness organizations are not criticized like the UPCI?

Well because those other organizations may have rules and standard of conduct, yet they do not make those salvational issues.
They teach their rules and standard of conduct simply as rules that their organizations have but do not preach that a person is going to hell for breaking their standard of conduct.

While in many UPCI churches a preacher will actually get on the pulpit and condem people to hell for breaking this or that rule.

What you may think "hate" may not really be hate at all.
If a person is going to fall into hole, and you warn that person, that the way that person is going is going; will land that person in the hole, is that hate?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

Let me explain this as best as I can.

Yes there may be some people who are bitter and hate the UPCI, but hopefully the Lord will work on them to get over those feelings.

However pointing out where an organization has gone to extremes can not be rightly called "hate".

When the priests, kings and Israel went wrong, God sent them prophets to point out their defects and bring them back to him.

Those prophets hollered and thundered against Israel, does it mean they hated Israel and wanted to see it destroyed?

No of course not.

Jeremiah loved God and loved his people, ye he fulminated against Israel for their wrongs. The enemies of Jeremiah were under the impression that he was against them and "Hated" them, but we know that was not true, for Jermiah wrote lamentations where he wept for Israel.

Of course no one likes it when their church or organization be criticized and that is normal.

However the Bible does say
"Faithful are the wounds of a friend"
Who really wants to be wounded, no one in their right mind.
But sometimes things have to be said that will wound.

I have often defended the UPCI in my posts because I consider them brethren, I have no ill will toward them and I wish them the best.

However I am not going to accept their man made rules as gospel or as "holiness" as they insist.

I would not be welcomed at a UPCI church for I believe in the Bible and if it is not in the Bible, I simply consider it a man-made rule, perhaps good intentioned but still a man-made rule.

The pharisees also fell into this mind set.
They created extra-rules to add to what already God had commanded, they wanted to build a hedge around the law. However eventually they elevated their man-made rules to the point that they consider them like if God himself had given those rules.

But as Jesus pointed out, their own rules or "traditions" eventually nullified the actual commandments of God.

Why the other oneness organizations are not criticized like the UPCI?

Well because those other organizations may have rules and standard of conduct, yet they do not make those salvational issues.
They teach their rules and standard of conduct simply as rules that their organizations have but do not preach that a person is going to hell for breaking their standard of conduct.

While in many UPCI churches a preacher will actually get on the pulpit and condem people to hell for breaking this or that rule.

What you may think "hate" may not really be hate at all.
If a person is going to fall into hole, and you warn that person, that the way that person is going is going; will land that person in the hole, is that hate?

I agree, what about the ALJC with it's many rules and regs? No one trashes them...

[ILG]

Originally Posted by webe123

Let me ask some on this board a question...what makes you so BITTER that you HATE the UPCI that much?

Seriously, you may as well cal this board the "Apostolic liberals only friends forum"!

You guys need to take a look at yourselves and see how you talk about the UPCI and ask yourselves if you would like your organization (or church if it is independant) put down like you people seem to do with the UPCI?

I will not say the UPCI is perfect in any way, shape or form, but good grief.... Get off the HATE! Which is basically what it is, weather or not you want to call it that.

Yes there are people in the UPCI that are very dogmatic about standards and dress...but not all are! Most are moderate from what I have seen. But let me also say that there are baptists, prodestants, methodists that feel exactly the same way about the standards they teach. The UPCI is not the only organization in the WORLD that has dogmatic people. Look at some of the organizations that do not even believe in electricity and live like it is the 1800's all over again. Just a horse and buggy! And if you ride in a car it is a SIN! Makes the UPCI look like a tame puppy compared to them! And dresses for women and no cut hair for women? You had better follow their code if you are in an organization like that!

And just so you know, I have been a baptist, methodist, then got into a UPC church 30 years ago and was UPC. Then was ALJC for a short while with a church I attended. Now the church I go to is going from independant to UPC. So I am not a newbie in this by any stretch of the imagination and am NOT a "defender" of the UPCI. It has it's problems like all organizations do, but I do not see people on this board going out of their way to degrade them! It gets old after a while folks! It is like saying you got robbed by a black man so therefore all balck people must be bad! That is not only a stupid way of thinking, it is very demeaning and insulting to people who are black! (They showed a picture earlier of Archie Bunker, some on here are like him, but against the UPCI in that way) They lump them in all together without giving one thought to saying how many churches are different.

Frankly I do not think the OP needs to explain himself to a bunch of people he has never met, how he has decided to go over to what is apparently to some on this board...the "enemy's camp"!

If he is going to go, I agree he needs to just go! Forget what other people say or think and let the Holy Ghost guide him.

I know there are other organizations like the ALJC that believe in Jesus name baptisim, but the only organization that is trashed constantly on this forum is the UPCI....care to explain why?

Why are you so angry?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by ILG

Why are you so angry?

I did not detect anger in the post...

[ILG]

Originally Posted by Barb

I did not detect anger in the post...

I did.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by ILG

I did.

Oh well...opinions are like noses. Everyone has one.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by webe123

Let me ask some on this board a question...what makes you so BITTER that you HATE the UPCI that much?

Bitter? I'm amazed it took nearly 30 pages for someone to say it. I'm not bitter, if I were bitter I wouldn't even consider going to visit. To say nothing of the fact that one of the biggest factors of consideration is that I miss the fellowship, because I love the people. Does that sound bitter to you? Don't confuse "I studied the Bible to see whether these things were so, and found them NOT to be so, therefore I decided to leave the fellowship" with "the UPC ruined my life, and over my dead body would I go into a UPC church." The latter attitude could be considered "bitter". Thats not my attitude, in fact I've got a more positive view about the UPC/OP churches than most who have left. I fully believe that many of the people in those churches are saved, and some of the finest Christian people in American Christianity....but I think they don't realize they are justified by faith, and spend years wondering if they are really saved or not, serving God in fear, when really they ought to be rejoicing in the grace of God and enjoying the liberty that is in Christ.

[Farfel]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Bitter? I'm amazed it took nearly 30 pages for someone to say it. I'm not bitter, if I were bitter I wouldn't even consider going to visit. To say nothing of the fact that one of the biggest factors of consideration is that I miss the fellowship, because I love the people. Does that sound bitter to you? Don't confuse "I studied the Bible to see whether these things were so, and found them NOT to be so, therefore I decided to leave the fellowship" with "the UPC ruined my life, and over my dead body would I go into a UPC church." The latter attitude could be considered "bitter". Thats not my attitude, in fact I've got a more positive view about the UPC/OP churches than most who have left. I fully believe that many of the people in those churches are saved, and some of the finest Christian people in American Christianity....but I think they don't realize they are justified by faith, and spend years wondering if they are really saved or not, serving God in fear, when really they ought to be rejoicing in the grace of God and enjoying the liberty that is in Christ.

This. This in bold . . . This is truth. And it's not just UPC or Apostolics in general who believe it either.

[houston]

What is the UPC?

[CC1]

Back to the original subject of this thread, as a exUPcer who has "gone charismatic" I think I can identify one other thing that is hard for UPC / Old time Pentecostal people to adjust to.

One you are out of a sect that emphasizes emotion and outward demonstrations of "worship" and devotion it is quite an adjustment. Going from a group who measures a person's spirituality and position with God by how loud they pray, speak in tongues and how vigorously they "shout" (dance, run, etc) to groups where Christianity is judged more by the changes it makes in ones life and how one absorbs, and lives out God's word, etc is huge.

Many times exUPCer's miss the high energy,fast music, jumpin' up and down', doin' the "helicopter" services. Their religious life has been so built around that culture it is what many view as the "moving of God" in their midst.

I will submit to you that having attended both type churches for many years each I believe the actual work of the Holy Spirit is no greater in the highly emotional church than the church based on hearing and doing the Word.

I have seen just as many changed lives, miracles, transformations, and deliverances in churches where there is no whooping, hollaring, running the aisles, spinning around, etc as I have in churches that do.

It is though, without a doubt, a difference in religious culture that many old time Pentecostals have a hard time adjusting to because of the highly emotional aspects being taught to them for years as evidence of their position with God.