Strange Fire Conference

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Your view of 'church divisions' is rather myopic. Have you spent any time perusing the discussions which take place among Eastern Orthodox people? Including their leadership?

If you did you would realise the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox groups are the KINGS of schism.

The russian Orthodox for example have at least about 10 different schisms going on RIGHT NOW. It got so bad in the early 20th century they even had MULTIPLE schismatic groups claiming there was no more church of God in the earth! They have had patriarchs and antipatriarchs, popes and antipopes if you will, galore. And I am just talking in the last century, forget their whole history.

The Reformed bunch aren't much better. You do realise that practically EVERY 'reformed' denomination is a schism, because they believe the other Reformed denominations are in some kind of error?

How about the Adventist movement? Literally SCORES of groups came out of that.

How about Herbert Armostrong's bunch? Just in the last 30 years alone that one single movement divided up into about 50 different entire denominations, arguing over various minor and major doctrinal points.

The Messianic movement is even more fractured with everything from full blown Talmudic Judaism (with a touch of Yehsua) to full blown charismatic evangelicalism (with a touch of sacred name-ism).

How about the Baptists? American baptists alone have more denominational structures, all created because of SCHISMS, than probably any other American religious movement with the possible exception of the Sacred Name bunch.

And finally, who has the history of MASS MURDER? Yeah, I said it - MASS MURDER.

The Catholics, Reformed, Orthodox groups have a rather detailed history of MURDERING entire communities of Christians who believed differently than they did.

I sure don't know any apostolics who believe that trinitarians should all be rounded up and PUT TO DEATH BY THE STATE, or that anyone who practices infant baptism should be likewise BURNT AT THE STAKE.

I don't know of any apostolic pentecostal group that believes, desires, or would EVER promote the mass roundup of ALL OTHER DENOMINATIONS TO BE PUT TO DEATH.

'Same spirit'? I think not.

Sure we disagree. We disagree on some fundamental issues. So did folks in the early 1st century church. You can read about those disagreements in the pages of your Bible. The earliest apostolic church faced schism and heresy. Nothing new.

This ecumenical attitude you desire is contrary to all Christian history, including the pages of the New Testament. It was and is nothing less than a plot by the Jesuit counter-reformation to 'bring all christians back to Rome'. The Vatican still enjoins the counter-reformation. The 'ecumenical movement' where all Christians just 'love each other and unite in friendship and get along' is a creation of forces who desire to EXTINGUISH biblical christianity.

The very existence of the schismatic 'Old Catholics' and 'traditionalist catholics' is due to Rome's attempt to create an ecumenical uniting of all christians.

The humanists and socialists picked up the ball with the 'evangelical movement' and the liberal 'ecumenical movement'.

To say this is comparable to the disputes among apostolics is naive at best. To say apostolics must not stand for truth and point out error is hypocritical.

Where is your condemnation of MacArthur's condemnation of YOU? According to him you are a HERETIC. And according to the Reformed tradition he claims to be a part of, you deserve to be put to death by the state.

I was reading this on my cell phone do I'll have to reread it later b/c its too long. But based on the first 2 paragraphs I'd say you missed my point.

I'm not saying that other groups don't have problems with division, what I'm saying is Apostolics who claimed to have THE TRUTH act the same way. And considering how they attack their own who dare to question the sacred cows can there be any doubt that OPs would have been just as barbaric in the the muddle ages as the catholics and some protestants?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

And considering how they attack their own who dare to question the sacred cows can there be any doubt that OPs would have been just as barbaric in the the muddle ages as the catholics and some protestants?

Yes, there can be a serious doubt that oneness pentecostals would act just as barbarically (sp?) as the catholics and protestants in the middle ages, because most OP theology is baptistic, which maintains a separation of church and state. Therefore, theologically, OPs are generally against the state punishing heresy.

[Steve Epley]

I call them false prophets because they deny the truth about Jesus being the Almighty God and the new birth of water and Spirit. Very simple.
As concerning those who carry faith to a point way beyond myself it is before God they will answer. I know preachers and their wives who have died without doctor's care that was their choice. They promoted people to have faith in God for healing without medical aid some were healed and some died.
I do not promote that myself in fact take medicine and go to the doctor but I am not going to fault those who choose to trust God for their healing.(by the which the majority of every branch of the Pentecostal movement did at one time.) I have never personally buried any child I pastored because the parent refused to take them to the doctor. However I have preached funerals of infants who died under the doctors care. Your impugning of those who choose to believe God rather than doctors seems to be mockery to me. I do not teach that level of faith but if a man have faith let him have it between him and God alone.

[n david]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I call them false prophets because they deny the truth about Jesus being the Almighty God and the new birth of water and Spirit. Very simple.
As concerning those who carry faith to a point way beyond myself it is before God they will answer. I know preachers and their wives who have died without doctor's care that was their choice. They promoted people to have faith in God for healing without medical aid some were healed and some died.
I do not promote that myself in fact take medicine and go to the doctor but I am not going to fault those who choose to trust God for their healing.(by the which the majority of every branch of the Pentecostal movement did at one time.) I have never personally buried any child I pastored because the parent refused to take them to the doctor. However I have preached funerals of infants who died under the doctors care. Your impugning of those who choose to believe God rather than doctors seems to be mockery to me. I do not teach that level of faith but if a man have faith let him have it between him and God alone.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I call them false prophets because they deny the truth about Jesus being the Almighty God and the new birth of water and Spirit. Very simple.
As concerning those who carry faith to a point way beyond myself it is before God they will answer. I know preachers and their wives who have died without doctor's care that was their choice. They promoted people to have faith in God for healing without medical aid some were healed and some died.
I do not promote that myself in fact take medicine and go to the doctor but I am not going to fault those who choose to trust God for their healing.(by the which the majority of every branch of the Pentecostal movement did at one time.) I have never personally buried any child I pastored because the parent refused to take them to the doctor. However I have preached funerals of infants who died under the doctors care. Your impugning of those who choose to believe God rather than doctors seems to be mockery to me. I do not teach that level of faith but if a man have faith let him have it between him and God alone.

For probably the first time......I can actually say I agree with every word Steve Eply said.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

For probably the first time......I can actually say I agree with every word Steve Eply said.

Really? You're ok with infants and children dying because of the religious beliefs of their parents?

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

I call them false prophets because they deny the truth about Jesus being the Almighty God and the new birth of water and Spirit. Very simple.
As concerning those who carry faith to a point way beyond myself it is before God they will answer. I know preachers and their wives who have died without doctor's care that was their choice. They promoted people to have faith in God for healing without medical aid some were healed and some died.

You don't call this 'promotion' of people to watch their infants and children die a form of false prophecy? You believe them which have done this and who do this to be men of God?

You're not addressing the issue, 'reverend'. You're running.

I do not promote that myself in fact take medicine and go to the doctor but I am not going to fault those who choose to trust God for their healing.

Right, of course you're not going to fault them for their evil teaching which results in infants and children dying, loss of husband, wife, father and mother. I know you're not, that's one of the points. You're bold and very very quick to proclaim the final judgement on those who aren't of the little sect you're a part of, but you're gutless to condemn that evil which results in death of men, women, children and infants from the godless message many in your little sect preach.

(by the which the majority of every branch of the Pentecostal movement did at one time.)

Surely doesn't make it right though, does it 'reverend'?

I have never personally buried any child I pastored because the parent refused to take them to the doctor.

You fellowship and embrace those who have in the past, or currently, do that though, don't you? Again, you know the churches you fellowship with and you know whats in the graveyards next to the church. Your boldness against sin doesn't extend to those self-labeled, so-called 'apostolics' in your fellowship. Again, you're gutless when it comes to pointing out the evil which results in the deaths of men, women, children and infants. As long as the religious standards are followed, as long as the money is flowing in, everything else is ok , isn't it? Well, everything but those who aren't part of the little sect that you fellowship.

However I have preached funerals of infants who died under the doctors care. Your impugning of those who choose to believe God rather than doctors seems to be mockery to me. I do not teach that level of faith but if a man have faith let him have it between him and God alone.

It's not between him and God alone though, 'reverend'. Do you understand infants and children dying in many of the churches in your little sect because of the decisions of honest hearted men and women who are deceived by the message many 'ministers' in your sect preach? Does that actually affect you or are you so blind and religious that the deaths of the little ones because of evil preaching doesn't bother you?

You're quick to proclaim judgment on those who aren't 'apostolic' but your silence is deafening when it comes to the teachings which cause death for infants, children, mothers and fathers.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by seekerman

You don't call this 'promotion' of people to watch their infants and children die a form of false prophecy? You believe them which have done this and who do this to be men of God?

You're not addressing the issue, 'reverend'. You're running.



Right, of course you're not going to fault them for their evil teaching which results in infants and children dying, loss of husband, wife, father and mother. I know you're not, that's one of the points. You're bold and very very quick to proclaim the final judgement on those who aren't of the little sect you're a part of, but you're gutless to condemn that evil which results in death of men, women, children and infants from the godless message many in your little sect preach.



Surely doesn't make it right though, does it 'reverend'?



You fellowship and embrace those who have in the past, or currently, do that though, don't you? Again, you know the churches you fellowship with and you know whats in the graveyards next to the church. Your boldness against sin doesn't extend to those self-labeled, so-called 'apostolics' in your fellowship. Again, you're gutless when it comes to pointing out the evil which results in the deaths of men, women, children and infants. As long as the religious standards are followed, as long as the money is flowing in, everything else is ok , isn't it? Well, everything but those who aren't part of the little sect that you fellowship.



It's not between him and God alone though, 'reverend'. Do you understand infants and children dying in many of the churches in your little sect because of the decisions of honest hearted men and women who are deceived by the message many 'ministers' in your sect preach? Does that actually affect you or are you so blind and religious that the deaths of the little ones because of evil preaching doesn't bother you?

You're quick to proclaim judgment on those who aren't 'apostolic' but your silence is deafening when it comes to the teachings which cause death for infants, children, mothers and fathers.

Sadly Seekerman I have buried my share of infants-husbands-wives and all were under the doctor's care. You are placing yourself in the place of God you have no idea whether those who died would have lived under doctor's care neither do I. I don't teach that those who do will answer for that. I will say this the majority of folks who practiced that has seen an abundance of healings and miracles of which most of Pentecost has not seen.

[Nitehawk013]

The way Seeker goes after the Elder you would think Elder had ran Seeker's mother over with a car at some point.

I think Seeker just has issues period and is fixated upon an insanely rare and fringe belief of an insanely few Apostolic ministers and somehow think Epley is wrong for not going out of his mind condemning them. I'd say Seeker just needs to get a life.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

The way Seeker goes after the Elder you would think Elder had ran Seeker's mother over with a car at some point.

I think Seeker just has issues period and is fixated upon an insanely rare and fringe belief of an insanely few Apostolic ministers and somehow think Epley is wrong for not going out of his mind condemning them. I'd say Seeker just needs to get a life.

I'd say that anyone who doesn't openly condemn those that teach a doctrine which results in the tragic deaths of infants and children, mothers and fathers because of lack of medical care is lacking in their view of God.

Wait until the days leading up to Christmas and watch 'reverend' epley though. While he may not be upset, caring or bold in pointing out the evil message of some of those in his little sect, he'll surly rise up in boldness against Christmas trees.

I guess it's what one believes is important. How about you, what's your view on those who preach a doctrine which results in infants, children, mothers and fathers dying for lack of medical attention? You ok with that as is 'reverend' epley?