End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Sister Alvear]

If not mistaken Sister Holland also preached for us....

[Sister Alvear]

I would be lost without Brother Alvear he is such a man of God and such a gentleman...His walk with God is so anointed and he is so intelligent...I study and study and study some more foreign languages and he just picks them up so fast...

[Sister Alvear]

I remember hearing Nona Freeman at the UPC church (in fact my pastor took us kids to hear her) when we were young...she was an awesome lady...

I have seen women get out of their place but a godly woman will respect the pastor and usually missionaries just tell missionary stories... most people love to hear what God is doing on the foreign field... However on the same note I have seen men get out of their place too...

[Sasha]

Some speak of the '5 fold ministry', meaning a verse that mentions apostles, teachers, prophets...

Those same people will speak about all of them in the same light in regard to qualifications as in an office. The Bible doesn't mention such qualifications, however.

Apostles are 'those who are sent'. It's not referring to only males but a generic term for messengers, so to speak. Some apostles preached, some performed miracles, but all were sent.

There are many women Paul speaks of as being fellow laborers. We can only assume what he means by that and we might all be correct about some of them, but Paul mentions one particular woman that even the smartest Biblical scholars admit might have been an apostle.

Junia.

Junia is referred to as being highly regarded among the apostles. She was also imprisoned with Paul. Unless you think they imprisoned her for her cooking, you have to admit her sharing the gospel to others with Paul might have placed her there along with him and others.

I find it odd that when it comes to men in the Bible, we have no problem believing what we want about what they did in the Biblical times even when Bible doesn't specifically state such, but when it comes to women, we want absolutes. Barnabus is noted as a fellow apostle yet there are no verses stating he preached or did miracles as Paul did. There are many men Paul mentions and we believe he mentions them not because they were excellent waiters or great taxi drivers but because they were people who aided him in his ministry and worked beside him to bring the gospel to the world as he knew it.

Whether Junia preached or not isn't the point I'm making, especially since there isn't a single person here who can even agree on what the definition really is. I just find it interesting that if Paul thought women had to be silent and not teach, how those women could have been working along side of him, not merely cooking his meals or ironing his robe.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Some speak of the '5 fold ministry', meaning a verse that mentions apostles, teachers, prophets...

Those same people will speak about all of them in the same light in regard to qualifications as in an office. The Bible doesn't mention such qualifications, however.

Apostles are 'those who are sent'. It's not referring to only males but a generic term for messengers, so to speak. Some apostles preached, some performed miracles, but all were sent.

There are many women Paul speaks of as being fellow laborers. We can only assume what he means by that and we might all be correct about some of them, but Paul mentions one particular woman that even the smartest Biblical scholars admit might have been an apostle.

Junia.

Junia is referred to as being highly regarded among the apostles. She was also imprisoned with Paul. Unless you think they imprisoned her for her cooking, you have to admit her sharing the gospel to others with Paul might have placed her there along with him and others.

I find it odd that when it comes to men in the Bible, we have no problem believing what we want about what they did in the Biblical times even when Bible doesn't specifically state such, but when it comes to women, we want absolutes. Barnabus is noted as a fellow apostle yet there are no verses stating he preached or did miracles as Paul did. There are many men Paul mentions and we believe he mentions them not because they were excellent waiters or great taxi drivers but because they were people who aided him in his ministry and worked beside him to bring the gospel to the world as he knew it.

Whether Junia preached or not isn't the point I'm making, especially since there isn't a single person here who can even agree on what the definition really is. I just find it interesting that if Paul thought women had to be silent and not teach, how those women could have been working along side of him, not merely cooking his meals or ironing his robe.

Ahhh yes, good ol' Junia !


Apparently you have not read this thread in its entirety (the very thing you charged me with) - or you would know that Junia has been addressed in-depth.


Did you not read renowned exegetes Drs. Daniel Wallace & Mike Burer's exceedingly meticulous syntax-exegesis regarding Junia's identity & role?


But, hey, since I'm a fair fella' - here ya' go again:


http://talmidimyeshua.org/docs/WasJuniaApostle.pdf

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by rdp

Ahhh yes, good ol' Junia !


Apparently you have not read this thread in its entirety (the very thing you charged me with) - or you would know that Junia has been addressed in-depth.


Did you not read renowned exegetes Drs. Daniel Wallace & Mike Burer's exceedingly meticulous syntax-exegesis regarding Junia's identity & role?


But, hey, since I'm a fair fella' - here ya' go again:


http://talmidimyeshua.org/docs/WasJuniaApostle.pdf

Actually, I read about a dozen or so. So you found one that agrees with you? Big deal. I read far more that don't. I'm not arguing over which scholar is more accurate, I just find it interesting that a woman is mentioned at all if she wasn't important enough. Certainly being a mere servant isn't that noteworthy, is it?

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Actually, I read about a dozen or so. So you found one that agrees with you? Big deal. I read far more that don't. I'm not arguing over which scholar is more accurate, I just find it interesting that a woman is mentioned at all if she wasn't important enough. Certainly being a mere servant isn't that noteworthy, is it?

Absolutely those who served were noteworthy. Those who waited tables in Acts 6 was mentioned by name, honest, full the Holy Ghost and wisdom, and these were chosen so that the Apostles could give themselves to prayer and the ministry of the word.

Women in Luke 8 were mentioned by name who ministered (same word for deacon) of their substance. IF deacon here means preach, they were preaching their substance to Jesus, which would be ridiculous. They were serving him by ministering of their substance so he could minister to the people.

Luk 8:3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
Luk 8:4 And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by RJR

Absolutely those who served were noteworthy. Those who waited tables in Acts 6 was mentioned by name, honest, full the Holy Ghost and wisdom, and these were chosen so that the Apostles could give themselves to prayer and the ministry of the word.

I'm missing your point here. I don't see any women mentioned in Acts 6, and I have no idea what you mean by those waiting tables being mentioned as I don't see that, nor do I understand what point is to be made by such mention.

Women in Luke 8 were mentioned by name who ministered (same word for deacon) of their substance. IF deacon here means preach, they were preaching their substance to Jesus, which would be ridiculous. They were serving him by ministering of their substance so he could minister to the people.

Luk 8:3 And Joanna the wife of Chuza Herod's steward, and Susanna, and many others, which ministered unto him of their substance.
Luk 8:4 And when much people were gathered together, and were come to him out of every city, he spake by a parable:

Again, I don't see your point. Junia wasn't a mere table waiter nor was she mentioned as a deacon. She was noted AMONG the apostles. Whether or not this means she was one, I don't know and neither are the most scholarly book writers certain. That said, I don't think your comparing her to being a mere tablewaiter is accurate.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Actually, I read about a dozen or so. So you found one that agrees with you? Big deal. I read far more that don't. I'm not arguing over which scholar is more accurate, I just find it interesting that a woman is mentioned at all if she wasn't important enough. Certainly being a mere servant isn't that noteworthy, is it?

Drs. Wallace & Burer's exceedingly meticulous work has not been overturned on a exegetical-syntactical-textual level (not even by Gordon Fee) - only denied.


The textual data stands - Junia was not an apostle, but rather simply part of a husband-wife team "known by the Apostles."

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by rdp

Drs. Wallace & Burer's exceedingly meticulous work has not been overturned on a exegetical-syntactical-textual level (not even by Gordon Fee) - only denied.


The textual data stands - Junia was not an apostle, but rather simply part of a husband-wife team "known by the Apostles."

Known for what? How nice his suits were and how well she cooked banana bread? In addition, the Bible doesn't mention they are husband and wife. That's only an assumption made.