End Time Army of Women Preachers Psalms 68:11

[Sister Alvear]

You seem to know greek does it say a woman or does it say gune (wife)

It is useless to discuss with you ... really a waste of my time ...and your time....we do not agree however I can live with that....

[RJR]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

You seem to know greek does it say a woman or does it say gune (wife)

It is useless to discuss with you ... really a waste of my time ...and your time....we do not agree however I can live with that....

If 1 Tim 2 is the husband and the wife. The woman is to be silent in the home and learn in all subjection. That means it is even more restrictive than the prohibition that you women preachers are rebelling against to begin with. Now according to your interpretation she has to be silent in the home. Yet, by comparison this was the one place, THE HOME, where she was to ask her husband, 1 Cor 14:35. So now you are contradicting the passages by saying 1 Tim 2 is telling her to keep silent in the home, when 1 Cor 14::35 tells her to ask her husband at home. You know good and well the passage is not instructing her not to keep silence in the home, as a matter of fact, she is to be a guide in the home. 1 Tim 5:14

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Yet, you are very well aware of the fact the prohibition was exercising authority over the man in teaching. She can pray, prophesy, praise, but she cannot teach in the church were men are present, period.

1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RJR

...Yet, you are very well aware of the fact the prohibition was exercising authority over the man in teaching. She can pray, prophesy, praise, but she cannot teach in the church were men are present, period.

Why can she pray, prophesy and praise in church if she is told to be silent, and why not preach, since Paul didn't forbid that? You guys are adding preaching to the mix, but the passage doesn't mention it. And, in your view, can women teach classes such as Sunday School classes?

[RJR]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Why can she pray, prophesy and praise in church if she is told to be silent, and why not preach, since Paul didn't forbid that? You guys are adding preaching to the mix, but the passage doesn't mention it. And, in your view, can women teach classes such as Sunday School classes?

The prohibition was in TEACHING and EXERCISING AUTHORITY over the man. Silence was used in conjunction with teaching in 1 Tim 2. Why? It is impossible to teach without exercising authority. You may have a problem with that, but most certainly the scripture does not.

1Ti 2:11  Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The silence was in the church, as already demonstrated silence was in regards to teaching. Notice this chapter, 1 Cor 14, is in regards to the abuse of tongues, and Paul demonstrates that it would be better to teach with 5 words than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue.

1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

He also uses the word silence in regards to speaking in tongues, before he uses the term directed towards women. Let me demonstrate.

1Co 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Was this Paul saying that a man could not utter a word? No! As a matter of fact he follows this injunction of silence with let him speak. The injunction was if there was no interpreter for the man to keep silence, in regards to teaching or edifying or speaking to the church. However he could speak to himself and God. It is with this formula in mind we can also discern the proper application of silence directed toward the women. Is it absolute silence, as in not a sound? NO! She may pray, prophesy, praise, but the injunction of silence is in teaching, period. You cannot teach without exercising authority over the man when they are present.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by RJR

The prohibition was in TEACHING and EXERCISING AUTHORITY over the man. Silence was used in conjunction with teaching in 1 Tim 2. Why, it is impossible to teach without exercising authority.

Right, but it doesn't mention preaching--or any other type of "noise." So why are you inferring preaching into the scripture?

You may have a problem with that, but most certainly the scripture does not.

I don't have a problem with anything scripture says. I do want to be clear on what it actually says, though.

1Ti 2:11  Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

The silence was in the church, as already demonstrated silence was in regards to teaching. Notice this chapter, 1 Cor 14, is in regards to the abuse of tongues, and Paul demonstrates that it would be better to teach with 5 words than 10,000 words in an unknown tongue.

1Co 14:19..Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

He also uses the word silence in regards to tongues, before he uses the term directed towards women. Let me demonstrate.

1Co 14:28..  ..But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.

Was this Paul saying that a man could not utter a word? No! As a matter of fact he follows this injunction of silence with let him speakThe prohibition was if there was no interpreter for the man to keep silence, in regards to teaching or edifying or speaking to the church. However he could speak to himself and God. It is with this formula in mind we can also discern the proper application of silence directed toward the women. Is it absolute silence, as in not a sound? NO! She may pray, prophesy, praise, but the silence is in teaching, period. You cannot teach without exercising authority.

I AGREE with you that it doesn't mean literal silence, but why are you calling teaching and preaching the same thing? They have different definitions in the Greek and are also distinct from one another in the 5-fold ministry. Paul didn't say a woman can't preach--anymore than he said she can't prophesy, sing, pray, speak in tongues, etc.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

Why can she pray, prophesy and praise in church if she is told to be silent, and why not preach, since Paul didn't forbid that? You guys are adding preaching to the mix, but the passage doesn't mention it. And, in your view, can women teach classes such as Sunday School classes?

Teaching & Preaching are used interchangeably in Scripture. Or, are you suggesting that when someone is "teaching" they are not "preaching" ?


Shall I repost (for about the 50th time) the lexical definition of "teach" in I Tim. 2.12 - (only to be completely ignored of course)?

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by rdp

Teaching & Preaching are used interchangeably in Scripture. Or, are you suggesting that when someone is "teaching" they are not "preaching" ?


Shall I repost (for about the 50th time) the lexical definition of "teach" in I Tim. 2.12 - (only to be completely ignored of course)?

Are you suggesting that teachers are also preachers?

Teaching isn't preaching, although I do believe preaching is teaching.

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by RJR

If 1 Tim 2 is the husband and the wife. The woman is to be silent in the home and learn in all subjection. That means it is even more restrictive than the prohibition that you women preachers are rebelling against to begin with. Now according to your interpretation she has to be silent in the home. Yet, by comparison this was the one place, THE HOME, where she was to ask her husband, 1 Cor 14:35. So now you are contradicting the passages by saying 1 Tim 2 is telling her to keep silent in the home, when 1 Cor 14::35 tells her to ask her husband at home. You know good and well the passage is not instructing her not to keep silence in the home, as a matter of fact, she is to be a guide in the home. 1 Tim 5:14

1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Yet, you are very well aware of the fact the prohibition was exercising authority over the man in teaching. She can pray, prophesy, praise, but she cannot teach in the church were men are present, period.

1Co 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Literal, yes or no?

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sasha

Literal, yes or no?

"Literal"-specific context & grammar - yes or no?

[Sasha]

Originally Posted by rdp

"Literal"-specific context & grammar - yes or no?

You are the one screaming out that verse, not me. Is it literal or not?