Harold Hoffman attacks Jim Kilgore

[n david]

Originally Posted by Charnock

Now, all of this was prefaced with the remark that Life Tabernacle is "gone" and that it was the largest foreign missions donor before departing.

The real issue here is anger. Anger because the money flow into FM slowed.

At the very least he acted in poor taste. There was no love in that message.

The bold part is a massive leap. I re-watched the clip with the volume up full blast and still didn't make out everything. As I heard, there was one passing reference to foreign missions and that's it.

HH said Jimbo was an embarrassment, but doesn't say why. He follows that with telling the people there that they need to stop being embarrassed by "this."

Unless you've watched or heard the entire message, you can't make the claim there was no love in the message. This 80 second clip doesn't show enough to make that claim.

As far as HH faking emotion, as a couple here have claimed...how do you know? You have no idea.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by n david

The bold part is a massive leap. I re-watched the clip with the volume up full blast and still didn't make out everything. As I heard, there was one passing reference to foreign missions and that's it.

HH said Jimbo was an embarrassment, but doesn't say why. He follows that with telling the people there that they need to stop being embarrassed by "this."

Unless you've watched or heard the entire message, you can't make the claim there was no love in the message. This 80 second clip doesn't show enough to make that claim.

As far as HH faking emotion, as a couple here have claimed...how do you know? You have no idea.

If you and MissB can barely hear it then I wonder where this reporting of what this man said came from..

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I didn't even comprehend what he was saying in the Kilgore video, so I guess I'm missing the scandal.

As for the other video--definitely in terrible taste. I can't imagine my pastor EVER making a reference like that. There were better ways to make sure his audience knew he was talking about someone from Africa.

I don't know enough about Harold Hoffman to connect his comment to racism rather than really poor taste. I hope it's the latter instead of the former, but who knows? I've heard him teach at Oklahoma family camp and I enjoyed his sessions.

People do make mistakes and insert their feet in their mouths occasionally. Well, except for the people who like to post videos of preachers like these--they've never made poor judgment calls or said something they later wished they hadn't.

This is a defense.

It's also an attack on the person who posted this thread, accompanied by your patented and condescending eye roll.

HH's comments were not "mistakes" in the sense that he accidentally, and without thought, slipped.

He stated that he knew those comments were being taped, and didn't care.

That's something far more insidious than "poor taste."

This is what you do, Bratti. You immediately attack the poster rather than the content and in such a way as to make yourself appear above the conversation.

It's an old schtick.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Charnock

This is a defense.

She wasn't defending the statement. She simply pointed out the truth about us all making mistakes.

She did not justify him doing it nor cleared the man of wrong doing

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

She wasn't defending the statement. She simply pointed out the truth about us all making mistakes.

She did not justify him doing it nor cleared the man of wrong doing

It wasn't "a mistake."

It was planned, and he made sure everyone watching/listening clearly understood that he meant what he said.

"It was a mistake" are your words, not his.

You're defending his words, trying to soften the blunt damage.

You're like the husband who finds his wife in bed with another man and believes her when she says it's "not what he thinks."

HH expressed sorrow for the loss of money and disgust with JK. He used his best sobby preacher voice to express that disgust.

[MissBrattified]

Originally Posted by Charnock

This is a defense.

No, it's related to the fact that I always look at both sides of an issue. Two wrongs never make a right. The response to wrong has to be done in a way that maintains integrity and stays above the fray.

It's also an attack on the person who posted this thread, accompanied by your patented and condescending eye roll.

It was the coffee cup that was dubbed condescending.

HH's comments were not "mistakes" in the sense that he accidentally, and without thought, slipped.

I didn't say they were accidental. Sometimes people say things on purpose that they regret later because they don't think through the consequences. The fact that he parsed it doesn't mean he didn't regret it later--but obviously that's a hypothetical and I have no way of knowing if he regrets anything.

He stated that he knew those comments were being taped, and didn't care.

That's something far more insidious than "poor taste."

Then why did you call it "poor taste" at the very least? Why is your summation fine but my almost exact same summation bad?

This is what you do, Bratti. You immediately attack the poster rather than the content and in such a way as to make yourself appear above the conversation.

It's an old schtick.

Actually, I don't. I do call a spade a spade and if you respond to wrong with wrong, I will call you out on it. You and others don't like that because you want it to be one sided. You want to rake people over the coals for their attitudes, lack of self-control, meanness, vindictiveness, etc., WHILE you are being mean, vindictive and having an attitude. I have a lot of respect for people who address issues respectfully. If I had the time (which I don't), I could go back and find multiple threads where I have participated in discussing serious issues with church leadership, organizations, etc., without attacking the poster for bringing it up. I don't have a problem with issues being raised and I don't have a problem with this thread being posted. Never have. If I did, I wouldn't participate in this forum, and I wouldn't comment on similar threads on Facebook. I'm not scared of issues.

I don't feel respect for people who address issues without integrity and self-control, e.g., I won't give your complaints any weight. If someone screams at me in anger and I scream right back, I'm just as wrong. If someone cusses me and I cuss back at them, I'm just as guilty. Etc. If you're going to call out people on their mess, you'd better be squeaky clean, or you're no better than them. IMO, the reason you feel comfortable being disrespectful and rude is because you have devalued certain groups of people (UPCers/conservative Apostolics) and given yourself permission to do so. Giving yourself permission to be ugly and rude because you think negatively about someone's values or belief system doesn't mean it's okay in God's eyes.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It was the coffee cup that was dubbed condescending.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

No, it's related to the fact that I always look at both sides of an issue. Two wrongs never make a right. The response to wrong has to be done in a way that maintains integrity and stays above the fray.

Um, BWAHAHA!

Your immediate and continued response has been to show way more disdain for the person who posted this thread than the racist and cruel remarks of HH.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

It was the coffee cup that was dubbed condescending.

Um, that is your trademark. Hover over it and you will see that it is labeled "rollseyes." Is that not meant to be condescending? Why do you use that smiley if NOT to be condescending.

[Charnock]

Originally Posted by MissBrattified

I didn't say they were accidental. Sometimes people say things on purpose that they regret later because they don't think through the consequences. The fact that he parsed it doesn't mean he didn't regret it later--but obviously that's a hypothetical and I have no way of knowing if he regrets anything.

No, you referred to it as a "mistake." As if it were accidental.

By his own admission, it wasn't. He was/is proud of his racist and mean-spirited remarks which you somehow feel compelled to defend and explain away.