The Scriptures Are Subjective

[mfblume]

I think some folks need a fear of God. lol.

Sounds like the world's recent arguments against God, here. The recent barrage of debate has been to believe there is a God, and to accept Scripture as His Word, but to criticize Him for what He does.

What gall.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by ILG

Agreed.

If God is going to be accused of genocidal mania, permissive of rape, incest, and all the other evils mentioned in this post, I would like to see some Scriptural proof in which God commands and commends the very things He's being accused of.

I have already shown how the conquest of Canaan was not genocide, by any definition of the word, but rather was justice against a wicked and immoral people at the national level.

Nobody seems to mind how many Germans and Japanese we sent to Hell less than 70 years ago.

But when people read of Israel righteously invading a foreign land to do the same thing as we did in WWII, and bring about a similar justice at the command of God, then everyone gets all bent out of shape and thinks of it as some great evil unworthy of the God they say they want to worship.

[shazeep]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

If God is going to be accused of genocidal mania, permissive of rape, incest, and all the other evils mentioned in this post, I would like to see some Scriptural proof in which God commands and commends the very things He's being accused of.

I have already shown how the conquest of Canaan was not genocide, by any definition of the word, but rather was justice against a wicked and immoral people at the national level.

Nobody seems to mind how many Germans and Japanese we sent to Hell less than 70 years ago.

But when people read of Israel righteously invading a foreign land to do the same thing as we did in WWII, and bring about a similar justice at the command of God, then everyone gets all bent out of shape and thinks of it as some great evil unworthy of the God they say they want to worship.

...disregarding that we are not in that dispensation, and that those stories are not being retold in approval, but to illuminate some raw truth. In each of those stories of rape or incest are central points that seem to be being missed? I mean, we have stories about people under siege eating their own children, too--doesn't mean God recommends it.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

If God is going to be accused of genocidal mania, permissive of rape, incest, and all the other evils mentioned in this post, I would like to see some Scriptural proof in which God commands and commends the very things He's being accused of.

I have already shown how the conquest of Canaan was not genocide, by any definition of the word, but rather was justice against a wicked and immoral people at the national level.

Nobody seems to mind how many Germans and Japanese we sent to Hell less than 70 years ago.

But when people read of Israel righteously invading a foreign land to do the same thing as we did in WWII, and bring about a similar justice at the command of God, then everyone gets all bent out of shape and thinks of it as some great evil unworthy of the God they say they want to worship.

Being interpreted:
"God is good and just so all his wars and commands must be good and just"

[ILG]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

If God is going to be accused of genocidal mania, permissive of rape, incest, and all the other evils mentioned in this post, I would like to see some Scriptural proof in which God commands and commends the very things He's being accused of.

I have already shown how the conquest of Canaan was not genocide, by any definition of the word, but rather was justice against a wicked and immoral people at the national level.

Nobody seems to mind how many Germans and Japanese we sent to Hell less than 70 years ago.

But when people read of Israel righteously invading a foreign land to do the same thing as we did in WWII, and bring about a similar justice at the command of God, then everyone gets all bent out of shape and thinks of it as some great evil unworthy of the God they say they want to worship.

Of course, no one here condones the Holocaust.

I believe this should be taken more metaphorically than literally. That's just my opinion and I'm sure you don't agree but I'm just being honest...

[Reader]

I am fond of the Bible, because it taught me about Jesus. I don't KNOW that everything in the Bible is true.

This is what I am attempting to say----you say the Bible taught you about Jesus and at the same time say you don't know that it is true. Then how do you know that the portions you have chosen to believe are really true? You may be basing your belief in Jesus on one of the untruths found there.

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by Reader

This is what I am attempting to say----you say the Bible taught you about Jesus and at the same time say you don't know that it is true. Then how do you know that the portions you have chosen to believe are really true? You may be basing your belief in Jesus on one of the untruths found there.

Hmmm...let me try this....

The bible was a stepping stone. It pointed me towards Jesus, it gave me a thirst for something more. The Spirit drew me, and then filled me. The Bible doesn't need to be inerrant to do that. At its very least it's a historical document. (I do believe it to be inspired and sacred, if not infallible).

Do you believe that the Spirit of God cannot draw a person, and fill a person, if the Bible is not absolute (or if they don't believe the Bible to be Absolute)?

You are right, I might be completely 100% wrong in all my beliefs about Life, Jesus and the Bible. I know that, and I accept that, and therefore I try to keep mind open. (I mean, it completely freaks me out that the Pharisees, the most religious of the day, not only missed Jesus, but thought the was doing the work of satan!)

But I do my best to follow the leading of the Spirit. I try to keep it simple. When I'm not sure if something is right or wrong, and I'm not getting a strong spiritual signal, I try to stick to the greatest Two Commandments.

Look, I get that what I'm saying is to you a horrifying and most likely heretical way to live. But it's where I am.

ETA: This is where I miss the old faces around here. Those who can see past my unorthodox and scandalous ways, because they know me, and know what I've been through and where I've come from.

[NotforSale]

Originally Posted by Dante

Everybody has an interpretation to scripture, and everyone can argue why their interpretation is the correct one. Therefore, the scriptures are subjective and not absolute.

Careful; you're simplifying, something that contradicts Religion and is the actual truth.

[Reader]

I am certainly not horrified by your thoughts. What I have attempted to do is to have you see that when one picks and chooses what is true and what is not, how do you really know if the places you chose to believe really happened? Let's take one thing you said:

Do you believe that the Spirit of God cannot draw a person, and fill a person, if the Bible is not absolute (or if they don't believe the Bible to be Absolute)?

Where is it that one gets that the Spirit of God draws a person or fills a person? Is it not from the Bible? If one believes only some things in it really happened or are true, then how can you know that the Spirit drawing is true?

I am not putting you down. This is not personal. What I cannot understand is how one can decide this part is true and this is not. What is your standard for doing so- in other words, what do you use to determine this?

[Dichotomy Girl]

Originally Posted by Reader

I am certainly not horrified by your thoughts. What I have attempted to do is to have you see that when one picks and chooses what is true and what is not, how do you really know if the places you chose to believe really happened? Let's take one thing you said:



Where is it that one gets that the Spirit of God draws a person or fills a person? Is it not from the Bible? If one believes only some things in it really happened or are true, then how can you know that the Spirit drawing is true?

I am not putting you down. This is not personal. What I cannot understand is how one can decide this part is true and this is not. What is your standard for doing so- in other words, what do you use to determine this?

Ok, lets take the Bible out of it for a minute. Mary Sue is not a Christian, and knows very little about Christianity. A friend invites her to Acme Christian Church. There a man preaches about Jesus, and Mary Sue thinks "wow, Jesus, if you are real, I would love to have a relationship with you".

A few days later, Mary Sue is praying at home alone in her bedroom, and all of a sudden something amazing she happens that she can't explain, as she is baptized in the Spirit.

A few days after that she comes out of the Grocery store and there is a pamphlet stuck under her windshield wipers. She see's that it's about Jesus, so she reads it, and it talks about how important it is to be Baptized, she feels in her heart that she would like to do this, and so calls the number of Gotham City Apostolic Church listed on the tract. She attends and is baptized in Jesus Name.

Now, I ask you this, would you call any of the 3 things used to draw her in, (A Pastor's Sermon, Personal Prayer, and religious literature) absolute truth and inerrant? Or would you say that God used the available people/items to make his will known?

A Sermon is not necessarily filled with Absolute Truth, it's certainly not inerrant or infallible. However, It CAN be inspired, and filled with sacred wisdom. And God most certainly can use ANYTHING to speak to and reach us.

What did people do in Jesus' time when the NT didn't exist? What about in the dark ages when only the Priests had access? When it wasn't even printed in the common language, or when most people couldn't read?

The Bible is a useful tool, but it's not God.