Is there going to be a rapture????

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

These events are AFTER the great tribulation. For this to prove pre trib they would need to be before it.

Yes my brother, the saints have been in heaven since chapter 11, waiting for the opportunity to return with Jesus to start the Millennial.

[Sean]

Brother Michael, in the following passage, Jesus that if anyone adds to the book of Revelation, the plagues will in turn, be added to them. This IMPLIES that if we do not add, WE WILL MISS THE PLAGUES OF THE BOOK. The point I am making is if left to allow Revelation interpret itself, YOU and I WILL miss the plagues. Post trib again does not fit the following passage here....

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

[Carl]

Could someone please comment on II Thessalonians 2:7? The verse appears to support a pre or mid trib rapture. Thanks.

[Sean]

Brother Michael, part 3 has been covered in different parts of our discussion, so I dont think it is necessary to repeat myself in answering that post. However, if there is a point I have overlooked, please feel free to ask my opinion. I personally think you may consider abandoning the post trib idea and moving to the middle, at least to a mid trib approach. I have been slowly going in the direction of mid trib for years, but a few passages still keep me in the pre/mid trib point of view.
With prophecy, nothing is set in stone as far as a our interpretations are concerned. That is why I always teach prophecy these days with an asterisk****. It is a way to allow others to share their point of view and be inclusive with this subject. It is alot of fun to discuss it this way. It seems everyone has a little different perspective on it. Watching bro. Baxter all these years is a classic example of why I want to remain open minded, yet believe what I teach. I have seen him wrong after some of his ideas were tested and he just moves on. It is important to believe in a subject and teach it with conviction, but this stuff needs an *****, just in case we get something wrong from time to time...LOL

[shag]

Y'all reckon this generation will pass away before all these things take place, or rather the time is at hand and all theses things WILL come upon this generation?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by shag

Y'all reckon this generation will pass away before all these things take place, or rather all theses things WILL come upon this generation?

I personally think that it is tied to the rebirth of the nation of Israel. The generation that was born in either May of 1948(Israels' rebirth) or June of 1967(Jerusalems' taking of the Jews) will be considered the last generation. Something will happen before either of these generations will die off.


I dont believe in the 40 year generation thing...that is nonsense. That is for the guessers of days like Harold Camping...

[shag]

Originally Posted by Sean

I personally think that it is tied to the rebirth of the nation of Israel. The generation that was born in either May of 1948(Israels' rebirth) or June of 1967(Jerusalems' taking of the Jews) will be considered the last generation. Something will happen before either of these generations will die off.


I dont believe in the 40 year generation thing...that is nonsense. That is for the guessers of days like Harold Camping...

? About 10 million books written and dvd's made in the last 50+ years on why the great tribulation, beast mark- etc is all about to happen, yet still hasn't happened... Even tongues interpretations:
http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...ad.php?t=36575

Please answer each of these questions in your opinion:

Truly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation.

1) What is the purpose of these words being spoken by Jesus to those people listening? (Crowd relevancy)

2) Why did he tell them that, if only some of the things(ie: the temple destruction) would come upon their generation?

3) If in fact (as is obvious by his words) Jesus was trying to let them know that all those things would come upon their generation, what words could he have better spoken to convey that to them?

4) What is the purpose of Paul (or whoever) writing the letter to the Hebrews and telling THEM: "For yet a very little while, He that cometh shall come, and shall not tarry"? Was Paul wrong? Did he not deceive them in that letter?

5) Regarding the parable of the wicked vinedressers, when is/was the fullfillment of Matt. 21:49's "coming"?

[shazeep]

amen to that. ok, and with that said, i'll say that i am confident that there will not be at least the type of rapture that the est'd church promulgates--a bunch of people who have accepted Christ with their mouths, now waiting to die and go to heaven when Christ comes "in the air" to save them from themselves. Not gonna happen. Now, when you begin discussing a 'prepared bride' who has stood up to the forces of evil ("Armageddon"), and is being martyred to annihilation for this, when Christ then steps in--ok. possibly. if our translation (of a translation) of Scripture is being conveyed correctly. But it is just as likely that a spiritual thing is happening here, @ "rapture," and that our common understanding is completely naive--which i find more likely.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by shazeep

amen to that. ok, and with that said, i'll say that i am confident that there will not be at least the type of rapture that the est'd church promulgates--a bunch of people who have accepted Christ with their mouths, now waiting to die and go to heaven when Christ comes "in the air" to save them from themselves. Not gonna happen. Now, when you begin discussing a 'prepared bride' who has stood up to the forces of evil ("Armageddon"), and is being martyred to annihilation for this, when Christ then steps in--ok. possibly. if our translation (of a translation) of Scripture is being conveyed correctly. But it is just as likely that a spiritual thing is happening here, @ "rapture," and that our common understanding is completely naive--which i find more likely.

Do you think the BRIDE should be subjected to this?....Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.



Brother, in reality, how you see the Christians fleeing from ISIS in the middle east is EXACTLY what the Christians of this world would do if exposed to the reign of Antichrist. Most folks think they are big, bad and tuff in the faith, but the fact is, some will fight back a little but mostly will run and deny the faith because of the unimaginable sufferings they will experience. We can hardly keep folks, and OURSELVES right with God in a time of peace right now....LOL.

If the church is allowed past Rev.11, it will be decimated and Jesus will have almost nobody left to rapture....Talk is cheap (He wont need to return for a sleeping bride as Matt 25 states, it will be a DEAD bride)

[Michael The Disciple]

Do you think the BRIDE should be subjected to this?....Rev 16:8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

Bro you know NO ONE teaches that. The plagues will not come to those who are in the secret place of the most high.

Does God have to take one to Heaven to keep them from plagues?

9Because thou hast made the LORD, which is my refuge, even the most High, thy habitation;
10There shall no evil befall thee, neither shall any plague come nigh thy dwelling. Psalms 91:9-10

We believe YHWH is able to put plagues where they belong and preserve the children of light simultaneously.