Deep Apostolic Teachers? - Page 21

Sean · #1 09-20-2014, 10:32 PM

(Luk 18:12)I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Spoken about a PHARISEE that was still UNDER THE LAW!

Sean · #2 09-20-2014, 11:10 PM

To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Now let us look at the context of Heb. 7......keep an eye on the bold print.....
7 For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; 2 to whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; 3 without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually.

4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.
5 And verily they that are of the sons of Levi, who receive the office of the priesthood, have a commandment to take tithes of the people according to the law, that is, of their brethren, though they come out of the loins of Abraham:

It clearly states that tithing is of the LAW OF MOSES!

6 but he whose descent(Melchisedek had descendants) is not counted to them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.
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7 And without all contradiction the less is blessed of the better. 8 And here men that die receive tithes;(Jewish priests under the LAW) but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth. 9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him.

11 If therefore perfection were by the Levitical priesthood, (for under it the people received the law,) what further need was there that another priest should rise after the order of Melchisedec, and not be called after the order of Aaron? 12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. 13 For he of whom these things are spoken pertaineth to another tribe, of which no man gave attendance at the altar. 14 For it is evident that our Lord sprang out of Juda; of which tribe Moses spake nothing concerning priesthood.

15 And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest, 16 who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life. 17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec. 18 For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. 19 For the law made nothing perfect,

NINE times, the word tithe or tenth is used. The exegesis of the passage here is about the TITHE, and what has become of it. This passage is the telling us that the tithe, which is of the Law, has been DISANULLED.

Sean · #3 09-20-2014, 11:25 PM

(Sean says that God HATES those who teach tithing but can't show a single scripture to support his hypothesis......

Here it is Bishop....Prov 6:19 ...God hates... a false witness that speaketh lies,

Tithing is a blatant lie(for the N.T. church), that has its roots in Catholicism.

Esaias · #4 09-20-2014, 11:29 PM

People teaching that you must give 10% of your weekly paycheck aren't teaching Biblical tithing to begin with.

Interestingly, the Didache says a preacher who asks for money is to be rejected.

Sean · #5 09-20-2014, 11:43 PM

Bishop, do you think that Peter and Paul had the attitude, regarding false teachers, that they should just "agree to disagree"?

Do you think the Apostles just said, regarding false teachers..."to each his own"?

You want us to just leave you alone with this doctrine, even though it is not a N.T. doctrine?

I have news for you....the information age is here. You guys cant keep us in fear of you and in a "dark age" mentality with "pope-ish" threats anymore.(the Lord WILL NOT hear your prayers against his church regarding any false doctrine) The next generation will end this doctrine and you guys will go down in the "hall of shame" when everyone exposes this false concept to each other. The saints will look back and say these forefathers "duped" the world and the church, and were still stuck in the "reformation".

Jason B · #6 09-21-2014, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

Bishop, do you think that Peter and Paul had the attitude, regarding false teachers, that they should just "agree to disagree"?

There needs to be a distinction between someone who teaches a doctrine inaccurately and someone who is a false prophet. Simply teaching tithing is a matter of ignorance (or at worst greed). I don't think that alone makes anyone a false prophet.

Bishop isn't the enemy. Steve Epley isn't the enemy. They are brothers in Christ, thus while disagreement may be sharp, and the need may even present itself to "withstand them to their face" )as much as that is possible on the internet)--and I've called SE on some things lately, they should be treated as brothers. My siblings and I didn't always get along, but in the end we are all still family. The same with those who trust in Christ as their Savior. We may not always get along, but we are family (I'm speaking of those truly regenerate believers, not the masses of false converts).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

I have news for you....the information age is here. You guys cant keep us in fear of you and in a "dark age" mentality with "pope-ish" threats anymore.(the Lord WILL NOT hear your prayers against his church regarding any false doctrine)

Sean, you're making wish I wasn't on the same side of this issue you are. Tone it down.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sean

The next generation will end this doctrine and you guys will go down in the "hall of shame" when everyone exposes this false concept to each other. The saints will look back and say these forefathers "duped" the world and the church, and were still stuck in the "reformation".

I doubt the next generation will end this doctrine. Perhaps if the Lord tarried the church as a whole will see this as something to be dropped. But then again, its only because so many people on AFF view "the church" as the little movement that is oneness pentecostalism so they don't realize that actually the majority of Christians don't even believe in tithing, and there are many, many strong Bible teachers and commentators who don't believe in tithing. If we accept that the church is not the oneness pentecostal church, and realize that tithing is really only strong amongst pentecostal/charismatic groups, some Baptists (epsecially Southern Baptists) and Mormons, everyone else rejects the view that tithing is a requirement of NC believers.

But more to your point, the Reformers all dropped this doctrine. Reformed and Bible Churches don't teach tithing. Neither do Churches of Christ or Methodists or many others.

The problem is oneness Pentecostalism is 500 years behind the Reformers, they still haven't grasped justification by faith, much less dropped tithing.

Michael The Disciple · #7 09-21-2014, 12:09 AM

I was one of the first on the internet on Apostolic forums to come out against the doctrine of tithing. I still believe it was done away as part of the law. Yet for saints who pay tithes because they want to I respect that as long as they don't teach it as a part of the New Covenant.

What is stunning to me is how strong some are against tithing and yet approve and condone such practices as celebrating Christmas. Something that can be easily researched by way of internet.

It would be interesting to see how the strong attackers of tithing stand about Christmas. Do they take offence to the fact that men have made up a holiday and put Jesus into it fully apart from any direction of the Lord?

Jason B · #8 09-21-2014, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

I was one of the first on the internet on Apostolic forums to come out against the doctrine of tithing. I still believe it was done away as part of the law. Yet for saints who pay tithes because they want to I respect that as long as they don't teach it as a part of the New Covenant.

What is stunning to me is how strong some are against tithing and yet approve and condone such practices as celebrating Christmas. Something that can be easily researched by way of internet.

It would be interesting to see how the strong attackers of tithing stand about Christmas. Do they take offence to the fact that men have made up a holiday and put Jesus into it fully apart from any direction of the Lord?

Christmas isn't addressed in the Bible, tithing is. To my knowledge no one makes Christmas a heaven or hell issue (though I'd bet there is an OP somewhere that does).

I don't think we're obligated to celebrate Christmas anymore than we're obligated to celebrate Thanksgiving, Easter, or 4th of July.

I do believe this is a matter of Christian liberty. If someone wants to commemorate the Lord's birth during this time, I don't see a problem with it. Christmas is both a religious (albeit not original to the early church) and a secular holiday. In our country it is much more secular than religious (the religious aspects are given lip service). But I don't see anything wrong with someone having a family get together at that time of year, exchanging gifts, and listening to some magnificent theology rich Christmas music (Hark The Herald Angels Sing has phenomenal theology). I love Christmas music (about Jesus, not about santa and Rudolph).

Again, i see it as a matter of Christian liberty. I don't think we are commanded not to observe cultural holidays as long as we don't have to sin to do it. Its not as if Christmas in 20th-21st century America and Saturnalia in 2nd century Rome are one and the same. The drawback to American Christmas is the greed, materialism, mythology, and commercialism. However the Christian is not obligated to observe these elements, and it is possible to observe Christmas without getting caught up in all those things.

So for me, Christmas isn't a problem.

NOW, if you don't celebrate Christmas, my question would be do you celebrate 4th of July? or Labor day? If you say we shouldn't celebrate Christmas, a holiday in our culture, do you have the same righteous indignation over other cultural holidays?

Praxeas · #9 09-21-2014, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

Christmas isn't addressed in the Bible, tithing is. To my knowledge no one makes Christmas a heaven or hell issue (though I'd bet there is an OP somewhere that does).

Why just OPs? Some Trinitarians preach against Christmas too

Esaias · #10 09-21-2014, 12:15 AM

Christmas is pagan and God hates it.

"Tithe teachers" don't teach Biblical tithing, they have invented something not found in the Bible and passed it off as "tithing". Teaching for doctrine the commandments of men. Albeit many do so out of ignorance because they don't know what the Law of the tithe actually was anyway.