Deep Apostolic Teachers?

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Steve Epley

Folks were dancing and shouting tonite as they were bringing their tithes and offerings. Was a sight to behold.

Great! Because the best way for Pentecostals to judge whether or not something is of God is the external reaction.


That's why people have to ask where they can find deep apostolic teaching, because so much apostolic church is empty emotionalism. A good Sunday night high but not practical to be stomping on the devils head all week. People need some meat.

Also, people shouted and danced as they threw money at Creflo Dollar and Leroy Thompson's feet while they danced in it. People are gullible, especially in a group setting that gives way to fanatical emotionalism.

[Michael The Disciple]

Yes friends tithing is a doctrinal error of the Churches today. And yet to give to the cause of Christ is a wonderful thing. I have always felt 10% was a good guideline for giving. I have actually heard more than one preacher teach you will go to Hell if you miss it by one penny!

Let us not despise the offering of the Lord because of the false teaching out there. And I hope before I die I will be able to point out truly deeper word Apostolic Teachers.

Indeed the Oneness message along with Acts 2:38 seems deep compared with the Evangelical Churches but there is a lot of BIG truth to still come to to make us truly "Apostolic".

[good samaritan]

Someone very close to me was refilled with the Holy Ghost after being away from God tonight. Tithing wasn't ever an issue with them. Matter of fact of my short 32 years of life I haven't heard of one person leaving because they felt forced to tithe. I believe the number one reason I have seen people backslide is over man and women relationships and getting disgruntled about something they were offended by. I have never one time heard someone say they backslid because they couldn't tithe. I do know people who are not in church who have paid a tithe into a local church who didn't even profess to be a Christian in their walk. They would do it and later testify that they noticed that they were more blessed when they did it. giving cheerfully does work even if it is tithes. I do recommend that people try doing it in faith and see if it changes anything for them.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Someone very close to me was refilled with the Holy Ghost after being away from God tonight. Tithing wasn't ever an issue with them. Matter of fact of my short 32 years of life I haven't heard of one person leaving because they felt forced to tithe. I believe the number one reason I have seen people backslide is over man and women relationships and getting disgruntled about something they were offended by. I have never one time heard someone say they backslid because they couldn't tithe. I do know people who are not in church who have paid a tithe into a local church who didn't even profess to be a Christian in their walk. They would do it and later testify that they noticed that they were more blessed when they did it. giving cheerfully does work even if it is tithes. I do recommend that people try doing it in faith and see if it changes anything for them.

Brother, take some backsliders to coffee on a regular basis....then ask them about their "problems" with the church. You will find that they are mostly legitimate problems. You will generally find tithing(men) and standards(women) at the top of the list, for anyone of them that have any biblical knowledge and are not back in deep sin.

Now ask sinners what they think of the churches today. You will see that the #1 thing that they say is ..."the church is a business" or "all they want is your money".

Where do you think they got that idea?


Do you think Paul was realizing that fact and tried to keep money(mammon) out of the picture of the ministry as much as possible?....ie Acts 20 to the elders.


Brother, regarding your age(31), you are my "target" audience. The "next" generation that must make the changes that I have been advocating!

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Sean

Brother, take some backsliders to coffee on a regular basis....then ask them about their "problems" with the church. You will find that they are mostly legitimate problems. You will generally find tithing(men) and standards(women) at the top of the list, for anyone of them that have any biblical knowledge and are not back in deep sin.

Now ask sinners what they think of the churches today. You will see that the #1 thing that they say is ..."the church is a business" or "all they want is your money".

Where do you think they got that idea?


Do you think Paul was realizing that fact and tried to keep money(mammon) out of the picture of the ministry as much as possible?....ie Acts 20 to the elders.


Brother, regarding your age(31), you are my "target" audience. The "next" generation that must make the changes that I have been advocating!

Brother I don't disagree with your theology concerning tithing just your vehement stance against it altogether. I agree a preacher should not make tithing a salvation issue to the church, but I don't think anything it is wrong showing it as a old Testament type of giving and using it as a good standard to go by (note: I didn't say only standard to go by). I do btw set down and spend much time with sinners and if tithing has ever came up in are talks I don't have a memory of it being in the negative. In fact I have many memories of most saying they feel they should. I have heard people down preachers for their use of the money and how many preachers want hand outs etc., but the people in this bible belt area I live see the tithe as the Lord's. They give as unto the Lord and not to man so they don't complain about it. If anyone out there makes any commitment just because they fear man they might as well not give it anyway. When people feel like they are giving to God there is no problem with any amount it is when they feel they are giving to man that they struggle. The sad thing is that the people you hear complaining about tithing isn't sinners or new converts but it is many times just backslid ministers of the gospel.

[Sean]

Also, people shouted and danced as they threw money at Creflo Dollar and Leroy Thompson's feet while they danced in it. People are gullible, especially in a group setting that gives way to fanatical emotionalism.
___________QUOTE Jason




My brother, the "money rain" you have described is now starting in our UPC churches...CLC has done it twice recently(without the money dance)


This is where it all is heading...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYxeTjrckl0

[Aquila]

Those Apostolics who do not believe mandatory tithing should form a fellowship. Right now, the free will offering crowd just looks like a bunch of disgruntled individuals. Form a fellowship, have position papers, theological expositions on the subject, and loving dialogue with those who disagree.

[Jason B]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Those Apostolics who do not believe mandatory tithing should form a fellowship. Right now, the free will offering crowd just looks like a bunch of disgruntled individuals. Form a fellowship, have position papers, theological expositions on the subject, and loving dialogue with those who disagree.

I think that would be interesting, but IMO the tithing issue isn't an important enough issue to form a fellowship. I would be more interested in an apostolic org with soteriology along the lines you and I affirm that didn't teach tithing. I was in an Apostolic church that didn't believe tithing for a couple of years but it was more legalistic than any UPC church I ever attended.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Jason Badejo

I think that would be interesting, but IMO the tithing issue isn't an important enough issue to form a fellowship. I would be more interested in an apostolic org with soteriology along the lines you and I affirm that didn't teach tithing. I was in an Apostolic church that didn't believe tithing for a couple of years but it was more legalistic than any UPC church I ever attended.

People like the exciting doctrines. lol

[Aquila]

I believe in "grace giving". I also believe in "vows". I don't believe that all who teaching tithing are going to Hell. I may believe they are mistaken if they condemn a person to Hell for not being able to tithe due to some unforeseen financial circumstance. But I will not bring the division that results from condemnation. Let them bring it. I'll simply teach what I believe the NT to teach on the issue and pray that it bears fruit among those to whom the Spirit intends it to reach.