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  #1  
Old 10-23-2014, 05:23 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Remind me, please.

How does Oneness Theology work for those who really are Oneness but really don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Father (as in God the Father).
There are groups that believe in only one God besides Oneness Pentecostals. However they also reject the fact that Christ is God...not just the Father period.

Jehovah Witnesses a prime example.

If Jesus is not the Father he is not the Christ. The Christ must be both according to Isaiahs Messianic prophecy of Isaiah 9:6.
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2014, 01:16 PM
thephnxman thephnxman is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
There are groups that believe in only one God besides Oneness Pentecostals. However they also reject the fact that Christ is God...not just the Father period.

Jehovah Witnesses a prime example.

If Jesus is not the Father he is not the Christ. The Christ must be both according to Isaiahs Messianic prophecy of Isaiah 9:6.
JW's are NOT ONE-ness, though they seem that way: they baptize in the titles.
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  #3  
Old 10-24-2014, 06:22 AM
Aquila Aquila is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Remind me, please.

How does Oneness Theology work for those who really are Oneness but really don't believe that Jesus Christ is the Father (as in God the Father).
My understanding might be close to what you're talking about. I had explained my understanding in a previous post which I will share here. Please let me know if this helps. God bless you and yours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquila View Post
The man, Jesus Christ, was indeed a man. A human being. Yet He was also God. How? Oneness. He was one with the Father.

Let's review how Jesus Himself describes His Oneness with the Father...
John 10:30
30 I and my Father are one. (KJV)

John 10:38
38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. (KJV)

John 12:45
45 And he that seeth me seeth him that sent me. (KJV)

John 14:7-10
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. (KJV)
If you walked the earth with Jesus, you'd get to know Him as a man. He'd teach. He'd laugh. He'd eat. He'd use the restroom. He'd sleep. He'd rest. He'd pray and speak of His Heavenly Father. He'd fast. He'd cry. He'd sweat. He'd bleed. However... at times you'd feel something otherworldly emanating from deep within Him. Something emanating from the very core of His being. Something powerful. Something that has authority over all creation. Something that speaks to the winds... bringing them into obedience. Something that raises the dead and heals all manner of sickness. Something indescribable. You'd sense GOD Himself at the core of Christ's own person. You'd realize that this man is... also God.

However, keep in mind...God did not reside in Christ as a vehicle. God resided in and permeated Christ's very being. A Oneness so complete, so majestic, and so divine that in Christ it can be said that God became a man... and that this very same man was also God.

No other religion elevates Christ to such an infinite height of majesty and honor. No other religion expresses Christ's true person to such an infinite degree. Most religions merely make Christ a prophet. No... Christ was not just a prophet. Christ was the human tabernacle of God Himself. To deny this imperils the soul... and reduces Christ to being either a lunatic or a liar.

All authority and power has been delivered to Christ Jesus. He will judge Krishna. He will judge Buddha. He will judge Mohammed. He will judge Nanak. He will judge the followers of every false prophet and madman. He will judge all men in accordance to the Father's will as it relates to the Gospel. Through Him, the Father will judge. Because they are one.
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  #4  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:33 AM
Sean Sean is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

The way Jesus and the Father are one is because Jesus had the Holy Ghost(Spirit of the Father) inside him.

The way we are one with Jesus, other than baptism, is when we have the Holy Ghost in us(Spirit of Christ).
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  #5  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:42 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

THIS

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple View Post
Exactly. No one is in "Apostolic Oneness" who rejects that Christ is both the Father and the Son.

This is a unique faith in the world and as to this particular truth the more Biblical.
IS DIFFERENT FROM THIS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
The way Jesus and the Father are one is because Jesus had the Holy Ghost(Spirit of the Father) inside him.

The way we are one with Jesus, other than baptism, is when we have the Holy Ghost in us(Spirit of Christ).

Care to explain?
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:45 AM
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Jermyn Davidson Jermyn Davidson is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Jesus is the Father.
Jesus is the Son.
Jesus is the Holy Ghost.
All Three are One.

Classical Oneness point of view, right?

But aren't there Oneness Pentecostals who don't believe like this?
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:22 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Jesus is the Father.
Jesus is the Son.
Jesus is the Holy Ghost.
All Three are One.

Classical Oneness point of view, right?

But aren't there Oneness Pentecostals who don't believe like this?
We sang it differently.

"He's God in the Father.
He's God in the Son
He's God in the Holy Ghost
and all these three are one"

But that is part of Oneness problems is we relied on songs and catch phrases to teach theology
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Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #8  
Old 12-31-2014, 04:59 PM
Pastor DTSalaz Pastor DTSalaz is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jermyn Davidson View Post
Jesus is the Father.
Jesus is the Son.
Jesus is the Holy Ghost.
All Three are One.

Classical Oneness point of view, right?

But aren't there Oneness Pentecostals who don't believe like this?
Jesus is the name given to the Son of God. This name embodies the fullness of the Godhead in bodily form.

Colossians 2.9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

Yet Paul in his address starts out using the distinctions. Because he understood them he was not afraid to state them without it affecting his monotheistic heritage.

Colossians 1.2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,

He understood the humanity of "our Lord Jesus Christ" and the divinity that united with the flesh who he also calls Him "God and Father of". Paul uses God denoting his unchanging nature, that of his divine essence it forever remains the same. Yet in his manifestation He is Father of the only begotten. We are created and can be filled with the Holy Ghost, Jesus is begotten which in essence gives him the same DNA spiritually fully being one with his Father. That same God from whom his unique origin comes from.

Paul States "We give thanks to God". He then qualifies this statement with "and Father". We obviously can grasp the revelation of God in his operation of being the Father of "our Lord" once again qualifying and equating Him yet showing his distinction of "Jesus Christ". Jesus the man who is qualified by the term Christ in Greek which is the same as the Messiah in Hebrew. The anointed one.

He then goes on urging the Colossians to be filled with the knowledge of his will and increasing in the knowledge of God.

1.9 For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;

10 That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

Then he describes his revelation.

12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:

13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: note

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. note

19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell;
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:20 PM
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Praxeas Praxeas is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean View Post
The way Jesus and the Father are one is because Jesus had the Holy Ghost(Spirit of the Father) inside him.

The way we are one with Jesus, other than baptism, is when we have the Holy Ghost in us(Spirit of Christ).
That sounds Unitarian

Jesus and the Father are One because they are the same Personal God and the same Divine nature

How they are different is Jesus's Human nature
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:


  1. There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
  2. The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
  3. Every sinner must repent of their sins.
  4. That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
  5. That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
  6. The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2014, 07:26 PM
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Michael The Disciple Michael The Disciple is offline
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Re: Apostolic But Not Believing Jesus is The Fathe

Quote:
Originally Posted by Praxeas View Post
That sounds Unitarian

Jesus and the Father are One because they are the same Personal God and the same Divine nature

How they are different is Jesus's Human nature
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