Oh WAKE UP people!!

[Lafon]

Originally Posted by Originalist

Should we attend PTA meetings?

Seriously? I doubt that such a civic activity is the same as the type of activity the following statements would incite in many:

We do not have to bow to a lawless President and we do not have to obey lawless judges. But if you think any of this can be resolved without civil disobedience you are dreaming. These judges are going to have to be scared off the bench. They are going to have to see angry mobs surrounding their offices and homes. They are going to have to see the fury of the American people starring them right in the eye. NO I am NOT even remotely hinting and doing what Timothy McVeigh did. I'm talking about doing what our colonial ancestors did.

Do you truly believe that such activity as your statements imply are representative of an ambassador of Jesus Christ, whom "real" Christians are to be? As for me, I cannot even begin to imagine how such activities as you suggest would serve to emulate our Lord, but that's just how I see it. You're free to view it otherwise, and that you apparently do, therefore I disagree.

Nevertheless, you've yet to explain how I have taken out of context Paul's instructions to Timothy.

[Aquila]

Here's my opinion...

I Corinthians 5:12-13 (ESV)
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Our focus should be on keeping the church presentable to Christ. The world will be the world. We are called to be a witness and a light to the world... not to being the world's moral police.

As for a Christian's involvement in politics... I believe a Christian should support the constitutional notion of liberty and justice for all (even sinners). Being a conservative, I believe that the government shouldn't involve itself in our lives unless something endangers the life, liberty, and/or property of another. We should be politically concerned with human freedom and liberty of conscience.

As far as prayer in Schools.... they can't even get our kids up to standard regarding reading, writing, science, and arithmetic. Do I really want them becoming overtly involved in my child's spiritual rearing? Do I want them learning Muslim prayers during "A Week In Islam"? Do I want some liberal New Age teacher facilitating prayer and spiritual discussion in my child's class? Nope. Not me. My kids are there for an education. Their salvation and spiritual upbringing is my responsibility.

I think it's pathetic when Christians want to sloth their duties and delegate them to the "government". Remember that old fashioned idea of "limited government"???

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's my opinion...

I Corinthians 5:12-13 (ESV)
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Our focus should be on keeping the church presentable to Christ. The world will be the world. We are called to be a witness and a light to the world... not to being the world's moral police.

As for a Christian's involvement in politics... I believe a Christian should support the constitutional notion of liberty and justice for all (even sinners). Being a conservative, I believe that the government shouldn't involve itself in our lives unless something endangers the life, liberty, and/or property of another. We should be politically concerned with human freedom and liberty of conscience.

As far as prayer in Schools.... they can't even get our kids up to standard regarding reading, writing, science, and arithmetic. Do I really want them becoming overtly involved in my child's spiritual rearing? Do I want them learning Muslim prayers during "A Week In Islam"? Do I want some liberal New Age teacher facilitating prayer and spiritual discussion in my child's class? Nope. Not me. My kids are there for an education. Their salvation and spiritual upbringing is my responsibility.

I think it's pathetic when Christians want to sloth their duties and delegate them to the "government". Remember that old fashioned idea of "limited government"???

[aegsm76]

Originally Posted by Aquila

Here's my opinion...

I Corinthians 5:12-13 (ESV)
12 For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

Our focus should be on keeping the church presentable to Christ. The world will be the world. We are called to be a witness and a light to the world... not to being the world's moral police.

As for a Christian's involvement in politics... I believe a Christian should support the constitutional notion of liberty and justice for all (even sinners). Being a conservative, I believe that the government shouldn't involve itself in our lives unless something endangers the life, liberty, and/or property of another. We should be politically concerned with human freedom and liberty of conscience.

As far as prayer in Schools.... they can't even get our kids up to standard regarding reading, writing, science, and arithmetic. Do I really want them becoming overtly involved in my child's spiritual rearing? Do I want them learning Muslim prayers during "A Week In Islam"? Do I want some liberal New Age teacher facilitating prayer and spiritual discussion in my child's class? Nope. Not me. My kids are there for an education. Their salvation and spiritual upbringing is my responsibility.

I think it's pathetic when Christians want to sloth their duties and delegate them to the "government". Remember that old fashioned idea of "limited government"???

I think it is pathetic when Christians are blase about the loss of morality in society.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I think it is pathetic when Christians are blase about the loss of morality in society.

I have a hunch that most that are downplaying the concerns I've expressed, or who are trying to "spiritualize" their lack of concern, are actually Obama supporters and are thrilled at what he is doing. One poster in particular boasted previously about having contributed to Obama's campaign. Gee, why wasn't that contribution an "entanglement in the affairs of this life" as he preached to me about in his post? hmmm.

[BrotherEastman]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I have a hunch that most that our downplaying the concerns I've expressed, or who are trying to "spiritualize" their lack of concern, are actually Obama supporters and are thrilled at what he is doing. One poster in particular boasted previously about having contributed to Obama's campaign. Gee, why wasn't that contribution an "entanglement in the affairs of this life" as he preached to me about in his post? hmmm.

Or why support Obama when you can support "the kingdom" ? I guess Obama is part of the Kingdom, lol.

[seguidordejesus]

Originally Posted by Originalist

I have a hunch that most that our downplaying the concerns I've expressed, or who are trying to "spiritualize" their lack of concern, are actually Obama supporters and are thrilled at what he is doing. One poster in particular boasted previously about having contributed to Obama's campaign. Gee, why wasn't that contribution an "entanglement in the affairs of this life" as he preached to me about in his post? hmmm.

Perhaps your "hunch" is some rancid leftover pizza.

Apparently wanting to be a Christian means one is a Democrat. Awesome.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by seguidordejesus

Perhaps your "hunch" is some rancid leftover pizza.

Apparently wanting to be a Christian means one is a Democrat. Awesome.

Actually I was not referring to you. I thought you were just trying to be principled.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by aegsm76

I think it is pathetic when Christians are blase about the loss of morality in society.

It's not a matter of being blasé about the loss of morality in society. It's a matter of focusing on the church and warning the church about society's direction. We act like society has never been worse. Our founders lived in a society wherein the economy was largely fueled by slavery. Not only was it slavery... but it was one of the most brutal and inhuman forms of slavery ever known to man. Prostitution was legal and rather common. Alcoholism was rampant, in fact, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution were drafted in a tavern over plenty of beer. Sexual abuse of one's slaves was common place. The Western Frontier was ungoverned and ripe with bandits and reavers. Genocidal tactics were employed against the Native American Indians, including rape and torture. Headship laws allowed one to employ corporal punishment upon both wife and children. Women had no voice and no vote. The molestation of children was more of a "dirty secret" not a crime that was actually punished. Forcing a wife to have sex against her will (rape) wasn't a crime as conjugal rights were deemed an entitlement of the husband. The industrial revolution brought 14-16 hour work days six days a week, women and children were primarily used as labor in this work force because they were only entitled to a third of the pay, factory conditions were dark, few windows, dangerous machines, no worker protections, crowded conditions, low ventilation, only a short break during the 14-16 hour work day, dirty environment, disease was easily spread, conditions often led to deformities or paralysis, no sanitation codes, in the city workers typically lived 6-9 people in a single apartment. Even after emancipation, African Americans didn't have the right to vote and various property rights were denied them. And abortion was legal, in fact, you can find adds for abortion services in local papers. Homosexuality was nearly as present as it is today. However, it was more discrete, and people didn't talk about it openly. It was largely... ignored entirely or winked at. If you were black and traveled through the deep south, you better know a rout that included families like the Quakers who would protect you from the locals... or you'd be harassed, often attacked, falsely accused, and maybe even lynched publically. Prohibition brought on a national tidal wave of organized crime that compares to the drug war today. A lack of international cooperation and mutual concern allowed dictators to rise to power who envisioned taking over the world through overt military power... which led to two world wars in which hundreds of millions lost their lives and civilian casualties were off the charts as it relates to both sides... ending in the use of two atomic bombs to bring Japan to it's knees.

Yep, those were the "good ol' days".

Honestly, it can be argued that the social evils of early America and previous generations were far greater than they are today.

[n david]

School prayer was good in the golden age; however, I wouldn't want it today. Not with the political correctness in this country. Like was mentioned, you'd have to have a Muslim offer prayer and New Age meditation. That's on top of the other religions which would demand to have a part.

All I want is for the first amendment to be honored by schools, and my children be allowed to read their Bible and pray during recess, lunch or open periods. I don't need the school to lead anything. I'd like them to simply stay out of the way and allow us to express our religious freedom.