The Anti-christ IS the "restrainer"?

[mfblume]

He in verse 6 is the he in verse 7. In turn, he in verse 6 is son of perdition in verse 3. Follow the "he" and antecdent link. JESUS being revealed is not mentioned between verse 3 and 7.

[mfblume]

Originalist, you'd see this, right?

[mfblume]

1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4Who (MAN OF SIN) opposeth and exalteth himself (MAN OF SIN) above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he (MAN OF SIN) as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he (MAN OF SIN) is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he (MAN OF SIN) might be revealed in his time.

Nothing between verses 3 and 7 changes the HE from the man of sin to Jesus by the time we get to verse 7. What is there between 3 and 7 that changes the HE to Jesus?

[Michael The Disciple]

Now Apostolic Friends let us continue. The really shocking part is that we have misunderstood verses 6 and 7.

Verse 6.

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

We were taught this refers to the man of sin when actually it refers to the REVELATION OF JESUS.


7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, 2 Thess 1:7

So reading the unbroken context by ignoring the inserted chapter number the whole flow is regarding Jesus coming for the saints and what is holding it back.

Now equally important is the mistranslation of 2 Thess 2:7.

KJV

7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

Now we know what is "witholding" "letting" or "restraining" the coming of the day of Christ.

Much disputing has taken place as it what must be first taken away in verse 7.

What if that verse says nothing about something being taken away?

[Michael The Disciple]

http://www.logosapostolic.org/bible_...s2v7.htm#i9.02

Now let us examine the scripture, which literally reads like this:
ἕως ἐκ μέσου γένηται
until out of midst he comes into being

The Greek word μέσου is the Genitive of μέσος (Gtr. mesos) which occurs 61 times in the New Testament, and is variously translated "midst" (41x), "among" (6x), "from among + ἐκ" (5x), "midnight + νύξ = night" (2x) etc. Only in this one scripture is it translated "way". If Paul had meant "way" here he had a perfectly good Greek word for it, which is ὁδός (Gtr. hodos). This word means "a way", "a road", "a path", and occurs 102 times in the New Testament. It is variously translated "way" (83x), "way side" (8x), "journey" (6x), "highway" (3x), etc. The fact is that "hodos" means "way", and "mesos" means "midst", and there is no need to confuse these words as some translators have done. As we can see there is no word for "taken" in the Greek text, and the idea that something is "taken" away here has been inserted by the translators, and has no basis in the original Greek.

Shocked? Probably not as much as I was!

I have verified this Greek reading in my two Greek Interlinears.

Pocket Interlinear New Testament by Jay Green. Page 560

The NKJV Greek English Interlinear New Testament. Page 718

Can you see it? Paul never said anything had to be first "taken out of the way".

Rather in reference to the fact the man of sin must be revealed before the Lord Jesus is revealed he says that what is restraining is that "it" or "he" must come OUT OF THE MIDST OF LAWLESSNESS!

The secret of lawlessness is already working and will do so until the MAN OF SIN COMES FROM THE MIDST OF IT!

Next verse:

8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 2 Thess 2:8

So after the man of sin comes out of the midst of lawlessness....he becomes the one who must be revealed BEFORE the revelation of Jesus!

WOW! How perfectly this all flows together.

[Sean]

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

We were taught this refers to the man of sin when actually it refers to the REVELATION OF JESUS. QUOTE: MICHAEL THE DISCIPLE



4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,





Michael, look at the bold print please bro.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Sean

6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.

We were taught this refers to the man of sin when actually it refers to the REVELATION OF JESUS. QUOTE: MICHAEL THE DISCIPLE



4Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 5Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming: 9Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,





Michael, look at the bold print please bro.

Sean please read my posts.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Sean please read my posts.

Michael, I am reading them.
Thats why I posted that one.
I disagree.
I would have to ignore what I posted and get into "advanced" explanation if I agreed with yours bro.

[mfblume]

How could this Be in our future if the first chapter had Paul tell the persecuted Thessalonians in the first century that they will be avenged by JESUS' revelation? To avenge people is to punish the people who persecuted them. And if this is future from our day the the persecutors of the thessalonians would get no punishment at all from JESUS since they're long dead and gone anyway.

.2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by mfblume

How could this Be in our future if the first chapter had Paul tell the persecuted Thessalonians in the first century that they will be avenged by JESUS' revelation? To avenge people is to punish the people who persecuted them. And if this is future from our day the the persecutors of the thessalonians would get no punishment at all from JESUS since they're long dead and gone anyway.

.2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;
2Th 1:7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2Th 1:8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
2Th 1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;
2Th 1:10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.

So your alternative is that Jesus was already revealed from Heaven giving rest to his saints. Jesus already came to be glorified in his saints and punished the wicked with eternal destruction.