Why I Am A Futurist

[good samaritan]

Some are saying quickly means quickly return.

Some are saying quickly means a quick return.

I believe in this wicked time on earth it could be both.

MB I believe your kingdom teaching is making people think your are close to being full preterists, but I believe you have been really saying that we have the authority of God now and we should be walking in it. You seem to be looking for the return of the Lord the same as I, but you just feel like most things have already past and the only thing left is His return? That is how I take you and if that is correct I don't care if there has already been a great trib. or not. I have learned to be ready for anything. pray and faint not!!!

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Some are saying quickly means quickly return.
Some are saying quickly means a quick return.
I believe in this wicked time on earth it could be both.
MB I believe your kingdom teaching is making people think your are close to being full preterists, but I believe you have been really saying that we have the authority of God now and we should be walking in it. You seem to be looking for the return of the Lord the same as I, but you just feel like most things have already past and the only thing left is His return? That is how I take you and if that is correct I don't care if there has already been a great trib. or not. I have learned to be ready for anything. pray and faint not!!!

There are many prophecies, as well as promises, that have come to pass.
But the Spirit seems to be indicating, by many in diverse denoms, that there is a
persecution coming upon the Church. I am of that persuasion. There have been
dreams and visions...and they seem to be getting louder and more intense.

If nothing happens before the coming of the Lord...nothing lost: we were prepared.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

There are many prophecies, as well as promises, that have come to pass.
But the Spirit seems to be indicating, by many in diverse denoms, that there is a
persecution coming upon the Church. I am of that persuasion. There have been
dreams and visions...and they seem to be getting louder and more intense.

If nothing happens before the coming of the Lord...nothing lost: we were prepared.

I am of the persuasion that God is being torn between two decisions. Until last night I have and still know that God is perfect and I have felt that He could not suffer outside the body of Christ, but then this verse jumped out that I have read many times.

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us- ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

There reason Jesus hasn't returned is because of His longsuffering on this earth. He doesn't want anyone to die lost and He holds creation together for us to be saved.

At the same time after fifth seal was opened John seen the saints of God under the alter crying how long? how long? before your avenge are blood upon the earth You see God's longsuffering causes Him to allow this thing to continue on, but all the while He is not blind to the suffering of His people. He will eventually say enough because I am of the persuasion that the church would cease.

Mt 24:22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved:but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened

You see we are human and our endurance has ends. We only can take so much. With each passing generation I believe it gets harder and harder to find people who will have true faith in Jesus. Some claim it, but most probably do not. That is why I think that we don't see miracles and signs like the early church did. Sure they still happen, but we live in a generation like no other and Jesus asks in Luke a while back in posts. shall I find them in the faith when I return ( to that affect paraphrasing).

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Some are saying quickly means quickly return.

Some are saying quickly means a quick return.

I believe in this wicked time on earth it could be both.

MB I believe your kingdom teaching is making people think your are close to being full preterists, but I believe you have been really saying that we have the authority of God now and we should be walking in it. You seem to be looking for the return of the Lord the same as I, but you just feel like most things have already past and the only thing left is His return? That is how I take you and if that is correct I don't care if there has already been a great trib. or not. I have learned to be ready for anything. pray and faint not!!!

Good assessment of my view. But I think it does matter when trib occurred, because the word speaks of it, for one thing. Also it shows the issue of how much a change came between the covenants and how God will judge anyone, even his bride, as he did jerusalem if people walk in sin. It's the contrast of covenants. It's the old jerusalem versus the new. And it was a huge thing in his mind. Imagine your wife adulterating against you and plotting your death. What hurt and what astounding and utter shocking pain. No wonder JESUS wept over jerusalem.

[good samaritan]

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us- ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I am sorry I have tried to see it the way you present, but it just doesn't register for me. I have too seen this verse applied to creation days and other things, but it still carries the same meaning God's time is not our time.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

2 Peter 3:7 But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.
8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us- ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

I am sorry I have tried to see it the way you present, but it just doesn't register for me. I have too seen this verse applied to creation days and other things, but it still carries the same meaning God's time is not our time.

That is only partly right. My opinion, mind you.

Here is a step b step exegesis as I see it, anyway:

We have to go back further in the chapter than you just did.

2 Peter 3:3-9 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Notice the subject is scoffers who claim too much time passed since God promised the Lord's coming. Now, this was only decades after the cross. So in a few decades, people were scoffing the Lord's coming as being impossible since too much time elapsed already.

Obviously they felt that after a certain amount of time, God's word cannot come to pass. That is the subject.

(5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

They forget that God foretold the flood that would cause the world to perish. That took place how long after God told Noah about it? 120 years! Peter's point was that Christ foretold His coming a lot less than 120 years before Peter wrote this chapter! If he could do that after 120 years, and it was not even 120 years since Jesus foretold His coming, then Jesus can still very well be coming!

Again, the issue is too much time having elapsed in the minds of the scoffers for Jesus to come.

(7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The same word that comes from God's mouth to predict the flood that took place 120 after it was spoken, also said Christ would come. So, if the scoffers could believe God was right in foretelling the flood that took place after 120 years since it was first spoken, what is so hard about believing Christ would come and it was not yet 40 years after He spoke of that? 1/3 the time!

word (8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Whether it takes one day for a thing to come to pass after it's prophesied, or one thousand years, it makes no difference to God's ability to make it come to pass. Time is of no issue when it comes to whether or not God can make a promise come to pass.'

THAT is the context.

here are some scholars' words saying it better than I can:

CLARKE
...no lapse of ages impairs his purposes, nor need he wait to find convenience to execute those purposes. And when the longest period of time has passed by, it is but as a moment or indivisible point in comparison of eternity.

GILL:
...suggesting, that though between thirty and forty years had elapsed since the promise was given out that Christ would come again, and should even a thousand, or two thousand years more, run off, before the coming of Christ, yet this should be no objection to the accomplishment of the promise; for though such a number of years is very considerable among men, ye not "with God", as the Arabic and Ethiopic versions read, with whom a thousand years, and even eternity itself, is but as a day, Isa_43:13.

BARNES:
The objection was, that much time, and perhaps the time which had been supposed to be set for his coming, had passed away, and still all things remained as they were. The reply of the apostle is, that no argument could be drawn from this, for that which may seem to be a long time to us is a brief period with God. In the infinity of his own duration there is abundant time to accomplish his designs, and it can make no difference with him whether they are accomplished in one day or extended to one thousand years.

We hear too many traditional erring thoughts and it's hard to get them out of our heads when we read these passages.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

That is only partly right. My opinion, mind you.

Here is a step b step exegesis as I see it, anyway:

We have to go back further in the chapter than you just did.

2 Peter 3:3-9 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, (4) And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Notice the subject is scoffers who claim too much time passed since God promised the Lord's coming. Now, this was only decades after the cross. So in a few decades, people were scoffing the Lord's coming as being impossible since too much time elapsed already.

Obviously they felt that after a certain amount of time, God's word cannot come to pass. That is the subject.

(5) For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: (6) Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

They forget that God foretold the flood that would cause the world to perish. That took place how long after God told Noah about it? 120 years! Peter's point was that Christ foretold His coming a lot less than 120 years before Peter wrote this chapter! If he could do that after 120 years, and it was not even 120 years since Jesus foretold His coming, then Jesus can still very well be coming!

Again, the issue is too much time having elapsed in the minds of the scoffers for Jesus to come.

(7) But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The same word that comes from God's mouth to predict the flood that took place 120 after it was spoken, also said Christ would come. So, if the scoffers could believe God was right in foretelling the flood that took place after 120 years since it was first spoken, what is so hard about believing Christ would come and it was not yet 40 years after He spoke of that? 1/3 the time!

word (8) But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. (9) The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Whether it takes one day for a thing to come to pass after it's prophesied, or one thousand years, it makes no difference to God's ability to make it come to pass. Time is of no issue when it comes to whether or not God can make a promise come to pass.'

THAT is the context.

here are some scholars' words saying it better than I can:

CLARKE
...no lapse of ages impairs his purposes, nor need he wait to find convenience to execute those purposes. And when the longest period of time has passed by, it is but as a moment or indivisible point in comparison of eternity.

GILL:
...suggesting, that though between thirty and forty years had elapsed since the promise was given out that Christ would come again, and should even a thousand, or two thousand years more, run off, before the coming of Christ, yet this should be no objection to the accomplishment of the promise; for though such a number of years is very considerable among men, ye not "with God", as the Arabic and Ethiopic versions read, with whom a thousand years, and even eternity itself, is but as a day, Isa_43:13.

BARNES:
The objection was, that much time, and perhaps the time which had been supposed to be set for his coming, had passed away, and still all things remained as they were. The reply of the apostle is, that no argument could be drawn from this, for that which may seem to be a long time to us is a brief period with God. In the infinity of his own duration there is abundant time to accomplish his designs, and it can make no difference with him whether they are accomplished in one day or extended to one thousand years.

We hear too many traditional erring thoughts and it's hard to get them out of our heads when we read these passages.

MB either I am misunderstanding you are you are me, but I believe this is the point I was making. The Lord's return on judgement day will come as a thief in the night. We can't be sure of the day, but we can be sure of its fulfillment. His timing is not our timing, but His prophecies are true. Is that not what this is saying in a nutshell. You have to speak plain to me because I am a little simple minded.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

MB either I am misunderstanding you are you are me, but I believe this is the point I was making. The Lord's return on judgement day will come as a thief in the night. We can't be sure of the day, but we can be sure of its fulfillment. His timing is not our timing, but His prophecies are true. Is that not what this is saying in a nutshell. You have to speak plain to me because I am a little simple minded.

His timing is not our time but he wants us to be ready?

So, quickly and at hand isn't meant for us to understand, but its meaning is only understood by Him? Therefore He is telling us that He is coming soon, and quickly, but those words are only meant for Him to understand, and not us.

Wow, that sure is as clear as freshly poured Sakrete.

Please with all due respect please explain "His timing is not our timing?"

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

His timing is not our time but he wants us to be ready?

So, quickly and at hand isn't meant for us to understand, but its meaning is only understood by Him? Therefore He is telling us that He is coming soon, and quickly, but those words are only meant for Him to understand, and not us.

Wow, that sure is as clear as freshly poured Sakrete.

Please with all due respect please explain "His timing is not our timing?"

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day

What I mean is that every number in scripture has a literal interpretation. The purpose is being ready not understanding all the details of all prophecies.

Sakrete???

[Bowas]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

MB either I am misunderstanding you are you are me, but I believe this is the point I was making. The Lord's return on judgement day will come as a thief in the night. We can't be sure of the day, but we can be sure of its fulfillment. His timing is not our timing, but His prophecies are true. Is that not what this is saying in a nutshell. You have to speak plain to me because I am a little simple minded.

God is not in time, nor can he be measured in or by time.
If, as some have said, (not you) one day to the Lord equals 1,000 years to us, then God is in time and as such, he would be getting older, just at a slower rate than us.
It is not to be taken as 1 day = 1000 years. That is not what is meant. It is just God trying to give us some comprehension that time to him, means nothing to him.
His prophecies are intended to be understand, although He would have us understand them in the time and culture He chose through His soveriegn will to come to unto, and then it is easier to understand what He would have us understand.
And the word "thousand" as it's used here, does not denote 999 plus 1, but used as was common to them at that time like, He owns the cattle of a thousand hills. Not a specific or a precise number is to be inferred.