Why I Am A Futurist

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

"Minor" symbolism Bowas, not "wacko" symbolism...thats the key!

So, when we say the city is the church and the trees are the church people, you say that's whacko symbolism. How can you say these verses are whacko, because the bible makes them symbols of the church in these verses not us? You do not agree with verses, too?

Hebrews 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hebrews 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,


Isaiah 61:3 To appoint unto them that mourn in Zion, to give unto them beauty for ashes, the oil of joy for mourning, the garment of praise for the spirit of heaviness; that they might be called trees of righteousness, the planting of the LORD, that he might be glorified.

Matthew 5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.

Psalms 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

Isaiah 62:12 And they shall call them, The holy people, The redeemed of the LORD: and thou shalt be called, Sought out, A city not forsaken.

[mfblume]

If you can get serious a minute... Sean, you are flat-out, up and down, saying the tree is literal. And we really don't have immortal bodies from the resurrection, but immortality from leaves. You believe we are not raised immortal, when Paul said we are.

You already believe in two gospels, so you are apt to disagree with Paul.

But is the lamb with seven eyes and horns literal?

[Sean]

Ha Ha, Mike, one gospel to all the ages(different requirements for different periods of time). You just dont have a clue what the gospel actually is.

The Lamb with 7 eyes is Jesus, Mike...Yes indeed Jesus is real and Literal. This symbolism is probably saying that He is watching over the 7 churches or something(not sure).

But it does not make the Lamb a non existent being. Like I said..."minor" symbolism.

You fall apart and eliminate a literal passage or BOOK when you arrive at ANY symbol!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Sean

Ha Ha, Mike, one gospel to all the ages(different requirements for different periods of time). You just dont have a clue what the gospel actually is.

The Lamb with 7 eyes is Jesus, Mike...Yes indeed Jesus is real and Literal. This symbolism is probably saying that He is watching over the 7 churches or something(not sure).

Soooo...... you say the lamb is symbolism. Did revelation say it was symbolic? Where do we read the Lamb is a symbol?

You say the leaves for healing are not a symbol. And you mock me when I say it is, when you say I am lying and the leaves are said to be leaves. So using your logic, which you cannot seem to grasp, you have to say the LAMB IS NOT A SYMBOL either. How do you know the lamb is not a symbol? There's no more proof it is a symbol than the leaves are proved to be a symbol. But you are putting me in hell because I believe the leaves are symbolic and by the same token you put yourself there by saying the Lamb is symbolic.

If the leaves are leaves because the bible says they are , then the LAMB IS A LAMB because it says it is.

But it does not make the Lamb a non existent being. Like I said..."minor" symbolism.

A MINOR SYMBOL? Show me bible for that! Show me where Revelation says it is a MINOR symbol.

So saying the lamb is a symbol of Jesus is a minor symbol when saying the leave sare a symbol is whacko? Meanwhile the bible said leaves are a symbol here:

Psalms 1:3 And he shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that bringeth forth his fruit in his season; his leaf also shall not wither; and whatsoever he doeth shall prosper.

You have no church.

You feel we are not be raised in immortality.

You believe in two plans of salvation.

You believe people in hell are immortal without leaves of the tree of life, but people in heaven are not immortal without the leaves.

Now you say I am going to hell.

You fall apart and eliminate a literal passage or BOOK when you arrive at ANY symbol!

And yet you say the LAMB is symbolic. If you judge me with going to hell, you better watch out for yourself. I am not kooky enough to say you are going to hell if you believe the leaves are literal, when I believe they aren't. But you just judged yourself. With the measure you mete to others, you will find it meted back to you.

[Sean]

The Gospel in the Old Testament
in ESSENTIAL ARTICLES,GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
When we speak of “the Gospel,” what do we mean? To most Christians it refers to the life of Christ-the various aspects of His ministry and His good works. When one minister was asked to define the Gospel, his reply was, “Well, you know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.” But the Gospel is not about the life of Christ, and it is not the four gospels.

What was the Gospel? The Bible states: “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:14-15). So the Bible defines the Gospel as the “gospel of the kingdom.” It was not a message about the Person of Christ. When Jesus preached the Gospel, He did not go about reciting what He had done here or what He had done there. He talked about the coming Kingdom of God-the coming world government.

This same message was also given to the Israelites during the Old Testament period, but they failed to understand it. Paul tells us: “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it” (Heb. 4:2).

- See more at: http://www.bethelcog.org/church/esse....TyXNEpNg.dpuf

[thephnxman]

Originally Posted by Sean

The Gospel in the Old Testament
in ESSENTIAL ARTICLES,GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
When we speak of “the Gospel,” what do we mean? To most Christians it refers to the life of Christ-the various aspects of His ministry and His good works. When one minister was asked to define the Gospel, his reply was, “Well, you know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.” But the Gospel is not about the life of Christ, and it is not the four gospels.
What was the Gospel? The Bible states: “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:14-15). So the Bible defines the Gospel as the “gospel of the kingdom.” It was not a message about the Person of Christ. When Jesus preached the Gospel, He did not go about reciting what He had done here or what He had done there. He talked about the coming Kingdom of God-the coming world government.
This same message was also given to the Israelites during the Old Testament period, but they failed to understand it. Paul tells us: “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it” (Heb. 4:2).
- See more at: http://www.bethelcog.org/church/esse....TyXNEpNg.dpuf

Since the day that God clothed Adam and Eve, the “gospel” has been hidden
in types and figures.

You asked: <What was the gospel? It was not about the Person of Christ.>
Of course it was! You got it right when you said it was about <the coming Kingdom
of God…>. The kingdom of God IS the kingdom of SON! It will be an everlasting
kingdom because, since the resurrection, God will always have sons and daughters.
The Lord will come to rule with the church, beginning in Jerusalem.

The message given to the Old Testament Israelites was one of the coming redemption.
And yes, the gospel was not mixed with faith and that generation perished in
the wilderness.

The gospel is manifest in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

Since the day that God clothed Adam and Eve, the “gospel” has been hidden
in types and figures.

You asked: <What was the gospel? It was not about the Person of Christ.>
Of course it was! You got it right when you said it was about <the coming Kingdom
of God…>. The kingdom of God IS the kingdom of SON! It will be an everlasting
kingdom because, since the resurrection, God will always have sons and daughters.
The Lord will come to rule with the church, beginning in Jerusalem.

The message given to the Old Testament Israelites was one of the coming redemption.
And yes, the gospel was not mixed with faith and that generation perished in
the wilderness.

The gospel is manifest in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

What about this...

Hebrews 3
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief......

4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them(Jews of Moses' day) but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


It clearly says the gospel was preached unto the Jews during Moses time. Do you reject this?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

What about this...

Hebrews 3
15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.

16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.

17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?

18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?

19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief......

4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.

2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them(Jews of Moses' day) but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.


It clearly says the gospel was preached unto the Jews during Moses time. Do you reject this?

Mike, stare at this passage a long while and think....Think Mike, Think.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Sean

The Gospel in the Old Testament
in ESSENTIAL ARTICLES,GOD'S COMMANDMENTS
When we speak of “the Gospel,” what do we mean? To most Christians it refers to the life of Christ-the various aspects of His ministry and His good works. When one minister was asked to define the Gospel, his reply was, “Well, you know, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John.” But the Gospel is not about the life of Christ, and it is not the four gospels.

What was the Gospel? The Bible states: “Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel” (Mark 1:14-15). So the Bible defines the Gospel as the “gospel of the kingdom.” It was not a message about the Person of Christ. When Jesus preached the Gospel, He did not go about reciting what He had done here or what He had done there. He talked about the coming Kingdom of God-the coming world government.

This same message was also given to the Israelites during the Old Testament period, but they failed to understand it. Paul tells us: “For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it” (Heb. 4:2).

- See more at: http://www.bethelcog.org/church/esse....TyXNEpNg.dpuf

Get your head in the game, guys...

[shazeep]

amen