Your tithes were already paid.

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

It is always o.k. to make a stand for biblical truth, but is there a right way to do it. Some of the tone and remarks made here demonize men who love the Lord and are sincere about what they believe. Bitterness is the wrong motivation to lead from.

Considering the large majority of churches (most every denomination) do teach tithe this demeaning message could actually keep people out of the church completely. Our focus should be on winning the lost and not exposing all the faults we find in others. Eventually there will never be a church biblical true enough for anyone.

And their remarks demonize those who teach against mandatory tithing just as yours now do.

Your accusations are noted. But know this propping up falsehood in the name of he lost will only disillusion those you had hoped to save.

[mfblume]

Just a question. Tithing is being questioned here. No problem. Why, though? Is it that people do not give as much as 10% and ti bothers them they are told they should? Or people are giving more and want others to know they can be blessed more than by giving just 10%?

Usually people complain about money when TOO MUCH is being asked. So are you saying 10% is too much to ask for? Trying to see what the point is. Or is it just that DEMANDING people pay a certain amount is wrong, even if it is .001%?

[Sean]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

There are some out there who are demanding, but most probably are not (most of those who are probably aren't experiencing church growth). I know many tithe teachers who do teach that you "must" tithe, but it is extremely rare churches for it to ever be in the demeaning tone that is presented. I have seen the ministry side o f things paying utilities, buying groceries, and buying children's Christmas out of personal funds. Many on here would get the idea that all tithe teachers are heretics who are just greedy of filthy lucre and that is so far from the truth. I am all for debating scripture, but much of this is just slanderous and in a spiritual tone that I don't see Jesus in.

That's because the doctrine of tithing for the New Testament church is scripturally unfounded. You wont see Jesus in it. That is why we are having this "slanderous" discussion.

It must be dealt with as heresy, since it is scripturally unfounded.

[Rudy]

Anyone ever here a pastor say "stay off of AFF" over this tithing issue?

[Sean]

The modern tithing doctrine for Apostolics, was invented in early organizational leadership forums in modern times.

The independent churches and their members were astonished and upset to see the organizations send out preachers to teach this idea in the early to mid 20th century.(they were commonly called the 10%ers)

Folks wanted to be part of these organizations, therefore accepted the doctrine of tithing as part of joining them.

[Rudy]

If a poll was taken among oneness pastors I'm sure 75% would put you in hell for not tithing your income. Now they are going for a 5% offering.

Robbing God has to do with robbing him of glory and interfering with his work. With the thousands who have left over this issue, God is being robbed again by those in leadership as in Malachi.

One pastor would not baptize unless he committed to tithe. Another told backsliders they had to pay up for the time they were out!!

Yes God is being robbed.

God is being robbed in a number of ways.

[Esaias]

FINALLY we might get into some scriptural documentation regarding WHAT and HOW tithing was and was done in the Bible.

Phew, my face was starting to turn blue waiting for SOMEBODY address the issue from the pro-tithing side.

As for name calling, most who resort to character attacks are showing they do not understand the issue, regardless of whattside they are on.

[Jacob's Ladder]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Tithes were given of all the spoils. This is in keeping with secular history. Most nations, if not all, tithed to their deities. The question I ask myself is why? Why is it ALWAYS 10%. Why not some other number. IMO this is indicative of a common source. I cannot prove this but do believe it. Just as I believe ancient flood stories refer to Noah's flood. These ancient civilization gave 10% of all to their deities. This included gold and silver. So there IS a precedent.

It hasn’t not always been ten percent. If anyone here believes that Abram’s tenth given to Melchizedek represents an eternal principal of tithing, then God compromised His eternal principal in Number 31: 25-31 (see below). If Abraham were following a universal principle of tithing when he gave Melchizedek a tenth from the spoils of war, then God would have commanded the people in Numbers 31 to follow suit.

Numbers 31:25-31
25 The LORD said to Moses,
26 “You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured.
27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community.
28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the LORD one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep.
29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the LORD’s part.
30 From the Israelites’ half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the LORD’s tabernacle.”
31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses

[Pliny]

Originally Posted by Jacob's Ladder

It hasn’t not always been ten percent. If anyone here believes that Abram’s tenth given to Melchizedek represents an eternal principal of tithing, then God compromised His eternal principal in Number 31: 25-31 (see below). If Abraham were following a universal principle of tithing when he gave Melchizedek a tenth from the spoils of war, then God would have commanded the people in Numbers 31 to follow suit.

Numbers 31:25-31
25 The LORD said to Moses,
26 “You and Eleazar the priest and the family heads of the community are to count all the people and animals that were captured.
27 Divide the spoils equally between the soldiers who took part in the battle and the rest of the community.
28 From the soldiers who fought in the battle, set apart as tribute for the LORD one out of every five hundred, whether people, cattle, donkeys or sheep.
29 Take this tribute from their half share and give it to Eleazar the priest as the LORD’s part.
30 From the Israelites’ half, select one out of every fifty, whether people, cattle, donkeys, sheep or other animals. Give them to the Levites, who are responsible for the care of the LORD’s tabernacle.”
31 So Moses and Eleazar the priest did as the LORD commanded Moses

Perhaps I was not clear. Thank you for the scripture. I will have to look into sometime. I am currently extremely busy right now. I am writing my own thesis and preaching and teaching and working a full time job.

My reference to always 10% is to ancient civilizations. They were always just that, a tithe.

IMO You cannot say God compromised His eternal principle based upon an anomaly.


Edited to add:
Based upon the passage we cannot determine whether 10% of the spoils went to God. You would have to know exactly how many people went to war and how many stayed home. No doubt there were more, many more, that stayed home and they gave 2% (V. 30). The sum total could still equal 10% of the total spoils.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by Pliny

Perhaps I was not clear. Thank you for the scripture. I will have to look into sometime. I am currently extremely busy right now. I am writing my own thesis and preaching and teaching and working a full time job.

My reference to always 10% is to ancient civilizations. They were always just that, a tithe.

IMO You cannot say God compromised His eternal principle based upon an anomaly.

Please give us a verse, stating tithing is an "eternal moral principle".

You will shut us all down with that verse, if it exists.

All tithe teachers say that, now produce the verse and win the argument.