Drunk in the Spirit

[berkeley]

Ever hear a drunk babble?

[good samaritan]

Do you believe the Lord controls the tongue when you are filled with the Holy Ghost?

If God doesn't, what is supernatural about the experience?

We can give control to God. I am not saying everyone doing the helicopter or running and jumping are being controlled by the Spirit. If someone says they got lost in their worship, why demean their experience? The lady with the Alabaster box was rebuked by her peers, but Jesus said she did a good thing.

We don't see a lot of that OT Pentecostal stuff at our churches any more, but there seems to be a lot more carnality in the church in place of. A lot less shouting in the church, but plenty of it at Monday night football. if I took a pole to see who all missed church for Super Bowl Sunday it may be saddening.

If someone is going bezerk in the Church then I think some Spiritual and loving people should speak to them in meekness to correct their behavior. We get liberty from the Spirit of God and I think that great joy and liberty is overwhelming to the worshiper. That is probably why so many respond in the way they do. They are not possessed, but truly there is a loss of control. Maybe some on here should try it sometime.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Do you believe the Lord controls the tongue when you are filled with the Holy Ghost?

If God doesn't, what is supernatural about the experience?

We can give control to God. I am not saying everyone doing the helicopter or running and jumping are being controlled by the Spirit. If someone says they got lost in their worship, why demean their experience? The lady with the Alabaster box was rebuked by her peers, but Jesus said she did a good thing.

We don't see a lot of that OT Pentecostal stuff at our churches any more, but there seems to be a lot more carnality in the church in place of. A lot less shouting in the church, but plenty of it at Monday night football. if I took a pole to see who all missed church for Super Bowl Sunday it may be saddening.

If someone is going bezerk in the Church then I think some Spiritual and loving people should speak to them in meekness to correct their behavior. We get liberty from the Spirit of God and I think that great joy and liberty is overwhelming to the worshiper. That is probably why so many respond in the way they do. They are not possessed, but truly there is a loss of control. Maybe some on here should try it sometime.

Hey I'm all for Biblical worship. The Bible gives us plenty of evidence for that: hands raised, singing, clapping, mouths opened with words of adulation, standing, dancing, lying prostrate, etc...

But nothing about running, wild flailing, passing out, staggering, convulsions, screaming, rolling, and many other things I have witnessed. If it was important to God don't you think He would have passages in His Word instructing us to do these things?

How does that kind of worship fit "order" that Paul writes of concerning public worship in I Cor 14?

[Barb]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Hey I'm all for Biblical worship. The Bible gives us plenty of evidence for that: hands raised, singing, clapping, mouths opened with words of adulation, standing, dancing, lying prostrate, etc...

But nothing about running, wild flailing, passing out, staggering, convulsions, screaming, rolling, and many other things I have witnessed. If it was important to God don't you think He would have passages in His Word instructing us to do these things?

How does that kind of worship fit "order" that Paul writes of concerning public worship in I Cor 14?

So please, for the less enlightened among us, present detailed info re the order of public worship. Since you are so certain of what it isn't, perhaps you can explain just what it is.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Barb

So please, for the less enlightened among us, present detailed info re the order of public worship. Since you are so certain of what it isn't, perhaps you can explain just what it is.

It's not necessary to conclude I think I'm more enlightened and I look down on you just because I disagree with the interpretation of Scripture. I want to be right just as much as anyone else. However I am not going to believe in something just because I was told, or just because someone says "this is what the Bible says", or because I grew up in it and in order to be accepted by the subculture, I have to go along and say "yes I agree" to everything I saw and or learned by virtue of being enmeshed in that subculture.

If you believe something you're going to communicate that. We argue here and debate and analyze and discuss. Sometimes it gets heated. But how can anyone arrive at the truth without examination and healthy debate? The Bereans studied the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Too many people just go along without thinking for themselves. If I'm wrong I want to know. If I'm in error I want to know.

My grandpa used to say "A wise man changes his mind, a fool never does."

What is order in public worship? I would say, based on the context of I Cor 14, Paul was addressing the chaos and abuse of the gifts of the Spirit, especially tongues in Corinth by saying essentially "we shouldn't be scaring off unbelievers among us causing them to leave our assemblies and say we are a bunch of mad, crazy weirdos". If an unbeliever attended a worship gathering and witnessed the things associated with "drunk in the Spirit" or people convulsing, or screaming, or going wild with flailing arms and herky-jerky movements, would they think "decent and in order" or would they be scared out of their minds?

How many of us brought friends to church from school or had relatives visit and the whole time we are praying "God PLEASE don't let Sister _______ or Brother _________ start _____________ and scaring my guests half to death"? There is worship that brings glory to God and attracts His Presence and is beautiful and is compelling to an unbeliever. There is another kind that glorifies the flesh and is rooted in self promotion and spiritual pride that brings zero glory to God. It's pretty easy to see the difference when it happens.

[Barb]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

It's not necessary to conclude I think I'm more enlightened and I look down on you just because I disagree with the interpretation of Scripture. I want to be right just as much as anyone else. However I am not going to believe in something just because I was told, or just because someone says "this is what the Bible says", or because I grew up in it and in order to be accepted by the subculture, I have to go along and say "yes I agree" to everything I saw and or learned by virtue of being enmeshed in that subculture.

If you believe something you're going to communicate that. We argue here and debate and analyze and discuss. Sometimes it gets heated. But how can anyone arrive at the truth without examination and healthy debate? The Bereans studied the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Too many people just go along without thinking for themselves. If I'm wrong I want to know. If I'm in error I want to know.

My grandpa used to say "A wise man changes his mind, a fool never does."

What is order in public worship? I would say, based on the context of I Cor 14, Paul was addressing the chaos and abuse of the gifts of the Spirit, especially tongues in Corinth by saying essentially "we shouldn't be scaring off unbelievers among us causing them to leave our assemblies and say we are a bunch of mad, crazy weirdos". If an unbeliever attended a worship gathering and witnessed the things associated with "drunk in the Spirit" or people convulsing, or screaming, or going wild with flailing arms and herky-jerky movements, would they think "decent and in order" or would they be scared out of their minds?

How many of us brought friends to church from school or had relatives visit and the whole time we are praying "God PLEASE don't let Sister _______ or Brother _________ start _____________ and scaring my guests half to death"? There is worship that brings glory to God and attracts His Presence and is beautiful and is compelling to an unbeliever. There is another kind that glorifies the flesh and is rooted in self promotion and spiritual pride that brings zero glory to God. It's pretty easy to see the difference when it happens.

Thank you for clarifying for me just what it is we do here on the forum.

Now as for I Corinthians 14, I don't believe for a second that Paul was "saying essentially 'we shouldn't be scaring off unbelievers among us causing them to leave our assemblies and say we are a bunch of mad, crazy weirdos.'"

I don't see that at all. What I do see is the elder teaching the saints about the Gifts of the Spirit and the operation of those Gifts. There is confusion at times, and I have been in services when the pastor had to bring it back to order. But that had nothing whatsoever to do with worship and praise being unbiblical.

Dancing a jig during the sermon, to the point of disrupting the Word from the Lord being heard is incorrect, and should be absolutely prevented and dealt with. Speaking in tongues during an interpretation of tongues is not correct...I saw this happen in a service with Bro. Anthony Mangun. The message was given, someone was giving the interpretation, and someone else began to speak on tongues...AM kindly stopped her, and said, "The Lord is speaking."

That is order.

Here's the deal as I see it from my house...we are flesh, and everything we do is going to be in the flesh. It can't be helped, unless we are robots or ET, so in this emotional state called humanity it can very well be that someone just might take something, anything to the extreme. Peter preached so long that someone fell asleep and out of a window. But to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater is a mistake, in this old woman's opinion.

I know you wrote in an earlier post that "I don't care what you've seen or witnessed or experienced," but sorry...here is my experience from almost 65 years in and around the Apostolic Church...

Not ONE time have I seen anyone walk away and call us crazy or weird or too emotional...not ONE time. Now perhaps you have, but that has not been my experience.

My experience has allowed me to see the sinner or backslider convicted of their sins and find an altar of repentance. I saw a woman, whom I know personally, rise from her wheel chair completely healed of a broken back in a Pentecostal worship/praise service...no one laid hands on her. She just got up and danced before the Lord.

There are a lot of things church folks do, not just Pentecostals but Christendom in general, which are not biblical. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't see a preacher standing behind a "sacred desk," but they almost all do. I don't see Power Point and or wireless Lavalier mics in the Bible, but we use them nonetheless.

You know, I think it was kinda cool of God not to leave us with a detailed list of do's and don'ts...He tried that with the Hebrews, and we all know how that turned out. Individuals follow their own personality and emotional make up...the story goes that back in the day, Bro. Norris told the folks, "You want to shout? We have 40 acres out back for that!" I personally think that was silly, but not crazy or weird enough to disqualify his ministry or actions as out of line. That was his conviction as the pastor. By the same token, I don't think a pastor is off the wall crazy or weird if they encourage dancing and shouting.

So DB, this is my humble opinion and the bottom line...if you don't like a demonstration of worship/praise, than by all means, sit tight and don't bite. But for those who do, that's their choice.

[CC1]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

It's not necessary to conclude I think I'm more enlightened and I look down on you just because I disagree with the interpretation of Scripture. I want to be right just as much as anyone else. However I am not going to believe in something just because I was told, or just because someone says "this is what the Bible says", or because I grew up in it and in order to be accepted by the subculture, I have to go along and say "yes I agree" to everything I saw and or learned by virtue of being enmeshed in that subculture.

If you believe something you're going to communicate that. We argue here and debate and analyze and discuss. Sometimes it gets heated. But how can anyone arrive at the truth without examination and healthy debate? The Bereans studied the scriptures daily to see if these things were so. Too many people just go along without thinking for themselves. If I'm wrong I want to know. If I'm in error I want to know.

My grandpa used to say "A wise man changes his mind, a fool never does."

What is order in public worship? I would say, based on the context of I Cor 14, Paul was addressing the chaos and abuse of the gifts of the Spirit, especially tongues in Corinth by saying essentially "we shouldn't be scaring off unbelievers among us causing them to leave our assemblies and say we are a bunch of mad, crazy weirdos". If an unbeliever attended a worship gathering and witnessed the things associated with "drunk in the Spirit" or people convulsing, or screaming, or going wild with flailing arms and herky-jerky movements, would they think "decent and in order" or would they be scared out of their minds?

How many of us brought friends to church from school or had relatives visit and the whole time we are praying "God PLEASE don't let Sister _______ or Brother _________ start _____________ and scaring my guests half to death"? There is worship that brings glory to God and attracts His Presence and is beautiful and is compelling to an unbeliever. There is another kind that glorifies the flesh and is rooted in self promotion and spiritual pride that brings zero glory to God. It's pretty easy to see the difference when it happens.

This is an excellent post that reflects my perspective and attitude when questioning or disagreeing with things in old time Oneness Pentecost.

Any religious sect with doctrinal and cultural distinctives that set it apart from the larger body of believers in their overall belief system (OP's within Christianity as a whole) tend to be very reactionary to any questioning of their distinctives. Those doing so. in particular former members, are automatically ascribed to have ill movtives. They are "looking down on" or "mocking" in the minds of the sect members. It seems it can never be that they have honest differences in belief.

Now granted some present their differences in a offensive manner and many of you know that has been my complaint about some feelow "libs" on AFF. A lib being offensive is as offensive as a ultra con being so!

[berkeley]

It is supernatural because God gives you the ability.

If God CONTROLS the tongue why did Paul correct the Corinthians with the use of spiritual gifts? If God controlled it wouldn't the use of tongues have been decent and in order?

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by berkeley

It is supernatural because God gives you the ability.

If God CONTROLS the tongue why did Paul correct the Corinthians with the use of spiritual gifts? If God controlled it wouldn't the use of tongues have been decent and in order?

Great point!

[good samaritan]

Do you think you can be filled with the Holy Ghost and not speak in tongues? If the baptism of the Holy Ghost means we receive the ability to speak in tongues then some could choose not to use the ability and still be filled with the Holy Ghost.