You not preaching holiness till you've named it!

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by Bowas

Rev. 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

According to scripture, what does "a bride adorned for her husband" mean?

Isaiah 61:10 I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and AS A BRIDE ADRONETH HERSELF WITH JEWELS.

Probably not much different than from today. Do not modern brides dress in a elaborate white gown with fixed up hair and there is a ring given. All that is adornment. I think mentioning how people dress in ceremony for a special wedding day is not how people would or should ordinarily dress.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by FlamingZword

The High priest the most holy person was loaded with Jewelry, if jewelry was a sin, he was the most sinful man in Israel and in the Temple.

You must be talking about the crown and the breastplate the priests wore while ministering in the tabernacle. I hardly see this as a way to vindicate jewelry worn by people today, which is for no other purpose than ornamentation (with the exception of a wristwatch or wedding ring). The priests wore the breastplate with the twelve stones to represent the twelve tribes as he ministered in the tabernacle. He Wore those jewels next to his heart as he ministered. there is a lot that could be said about the priests garments, but I think it has nothing to do with proving new testament attire.

[FlamingZword]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

You must be talking about the crown and the breastplate the priests wore while ministering in the tabernacle. I hardly see this as a way to vindicate jewelry worn by people today, which is for no other purpose than ornamentation (with the exception of a wristwatch or wedding ring). The priests wore the breastplate with the twelve stones to represent the twelve tribes as he ministered in the tabernacle. He Wore those jewels next to his heart as he ministered. there is a lot that could be said about the priests garments, but I think it has nothing to do with proving new testament attire.

Jewels are jewels no matter where they are worn.

Gold jewelry is gold jewelry no matter where it is worn.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

It was the custom for brides and bridegrooms to be decked and adorned with jewelry as part of the marriage celebration. God uses this as an analogy for spiritual adornments - the garments of salvation, the robe of righteousness. He did not use that as an endorsement of wearing jewelry all the time like you are on your wedding day.

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
(1 Peter 3:1-5 KJV)

It doesn't make good sense to take a bald, clear, unambiguous command given by an apostle and use a metaphor from the OT to overthrow and reverse the plain meaning of the apostle. Godly women are not to be adorned with plaiting of the hair, wearing of gold, or putting on of apparel. These things (not an exhaustive list, by the way) are not to be her ADORNMENT (key word). In other words, what a godly women decorates herself with.

It's speaking of a woman's focus, not just using those things.

Why would a sinful thing be allowed on a wedding day and no other time?

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's speaking of a woman's focus, not just using those things.

Why would a sinful thing be allowed on a wedding day and no other time?

Nobody said any of those things were sinful. The THINGS aren't sinful. It's the USE of those things. A woman is not to ADORN herself with those things, they are not to be her adornment.

But let's look closer at what Isaiah said:

And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
(Isaiah 61:5 KJV)

So, it's the Christian thing to do to have a bunch of illegals doing their yard work now, because after all, God used this as a symbol of Israel's restoration?

Let's look at Ezekiel:

I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
(Ezekiel 16:10-13 KJV)

So, perfectly okay for a Christian woman to go around in badgers' skin, silk, bracelets on her hands (both hands), necklace, a forehead jewel, earrings, and a crown, decked with gold and silver, embroidered linen and silk dresses, etc? All at once (such is the description given by the prophet)? Or would you be feeling a sermon on modesty coming on?

Point is, old testament metaphors and symbols do not replace clear unambiguous statements by an apostle.

Here's one from the OT:

For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee. And the children of Israel stripped themselves of their ornaments by the mount Horeb.
(Exodus 33:5-6 KJV)

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's speaking of a woman's focus, not just using those things.

Why would a sinful thing be allowed on a wedding day and no other time?

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
(1 Peter 3:1-5 KJV)

I think that is a liberal way of interpreting this passage. I understand your point and it is a valid point, but still is a liberal interpretation. Paul literally said to not let your outward adorning be a certain way, but yet people read this deeper meaning than what the text actually says. I am not saying you are wrong, but wouldn't you want to error on the safe side. My question again is why do people want to wear jewelry.

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by good samaritan

Likewise, ye wives, be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives; While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and of wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is not corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price. For after this manner in the old time the holy women also, who trusted in God, adorned themselves, being in subjection unto their own husbands:
(1 Peter 3:1-5 KJV)

I think that is a liberal way of interpreting this passage. I understand your point and it is a valid point, but still is a liberal interpretation. Paul literally said to not let your outward adorning be a certain way, but yet people read this deeper meaning than what the text actually says. I am not saying you are wrong, but wouldn't you want to error on the safe side. My question again is why do people want to wear jewelry.

It's not the wearing of it. One can wear it and it not be considered their adornment in their hearts. They just wear it as much as we comb our hair. We don't want messy hair do we? And it's not sin to comb our hair? If jewelry is nothing more to one's heart than that, then there is no problem. It's when it becomes what our focus is on what adorns us that makes it wrong.

If we have, as though we have not, then there is no error. If we can take it or leave it, it's innocent.

In other words, if one is asked what adorns them, and they think of the gold and silver, and go overboard with it, not in moderation, they are wrong. If one is moderate with them, and is asked what adorns them, and they think spiritually and say my meek heart and quiet spirit that God sees, that is the desired intention behind those words.

If adornment in itself is simply wearing it, and that makes it wrong, then the ADORNMENT of a bride that Esaias mentioned was innocent for a wedding would not be innocent for a wedding. Again God's word does not contradict. he would not use something sinful to illustrate a holy point as a holy point is being illustrated in EZEKIEL 16 ABOUT God and his bride.

We read New Jerusalem in Rev 21 dressed as a bride adorned, and we find the city is filled with gold and jewels.

So the only way to balance the overall picture out is to realize there is nothing wrong with jewelry unless it is to the excess of being our focus and what comes to our minds when we think of what adorns us, instead of the things of the heart.

There's too much to keep that interpretation intact. There's the ring for the prodigal son. there's the earrings and bracelets for Rebekah.

God would not use those pictures. Esaias asked about their use. Well, what else are they used for then wearing them? Just keeping them in a drawer after wedding?

To me, it's like combing the hair. I think people got in the flesh about it and made a mountain out of a mole hill. And I acknowledge some people take it WAY TOO FAR, but we must be careful with anything. Treat it all with carefulness. Have as though having not. Nothing wrong with being wealthy, but if wealth becomes our universe, we can't have it at that point.

[good samaritan]

Originally Posted by mfblume

It's not the wearing of it. One can wear it and it not be considered their adornment in their hearts. They just wear it as much as we comb our hair. We don't want messy hair do we? And it's not sin to comb our hair? If jewelry is nothing more to one's heart than that, then there is no problem. It's when it becomes what our focus is on what adorns us that makes it wrong.

If we have, as though we have not, then there is no error. If we can take it or leave it, it's innocent.

If a person can take it or leave it and it isn't important to them then they probably will leave it. The fact is that people who wear jewelry, it is important to them. The very hint that it could be wrong would be enough if a person could take it or leave it. I have heard countless women say they couldn't leave their house without their makeup. To me that is not taking it or leaving it, but to me that says I must have it.

In other words, if one is asked what adorns them, and they think of the gold and silver, and go overboard with it, not in moderation, they are wrong. If one is moderate with them, and is asked what adorns them, and they think spiritually and say my meek heart and quiet spirit that God sees, that is the desired intention behind those words.

If adornment in itself is simply wearing it, and that makes it wrong, then the ADORNMENT of a bride that Esaias mentioned was innocent for a wedding would not be innocent for a wedding. Again God's word does not contradict. he would not use something sinful to illustrate a holy point as a holy point is being illustrated in EZEKIEL 16 ABOUT God and his bride.

We read New Jerusalem in Rev 21 dressed as a bride adorned, and we find the city is filled with gold and jewels.

So the only way to balance the overall picture out is to realize there is nothing wrong with jewelry unless it is to the excess of being our focus and what comes to our minds when we think of what adorns us, instead of the things of the heart.

There's too much to keep that interpretation intact. There's the ring for the prodigal son. there's the earrings and bracelets for Rebekah.

God would not use those pictures. Esaias asked about their use. Well, what else are they used for then wearing them? Just keeping them in a drawer after wedding?

To me, it's like combing the hair. I think people got in the flesh about it and made a mountain out of a mole hill. And I acknowledge some people take it WAY TOO FAR, but we must be careful with anything. Treat it all with carefulness. Have as though having not. Nothing wrong with being wealthy, but if wealth becomes our universe, we can't have it at that point.

heeheehee

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Nobody said any of those things were sinful. The THINGS aren't sinful. It's the USE of those things. A woman is not to ADORN herself with those things, they are not to be her adornment.

But let's look closer at what Isaiah said:

And strangers shall stand and feed your flocks, and the sons of the alien shall be your plowmen and your vinedressers.
(Isaiah 61:5 KJV)

So, it's the Christian thing to do to have a bunch of illegals doing their yard work now, because after all, God used this as a symbol of Israel's restoration?

Let's look at Ezekiel:

I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom.
(Ezekiel 16:10-13 KJV)

So, perfectly okay for a Christian woman to go around in badgers' skin, silk, bracelets on her hands (both hands), necklace, a forehead jewel, earrings, and a crown, decked with gold and silver, embroidered linen and silk dresses, etc? All at once (such is the description given by the prophet)? Or would you be feeling a sermon on modesty coming on?

Point is, old testament metaphors and symbols do not replace clear unambiguous statements by an apostle.

Here's one from the OT:

For the LORD had said unto Moses, Say unto the children of Israel, Ye are a stiffnecked people: I will come up into the midst of thee in a moment, and consume thee: therefore now put off thy ornaments from thee, that I may know what to do unto thee. And the children of Israel stripped themselves of their ornaments by the mount Horeb.
(Exodus 33:5-6 KJV)

It's these things being a focus. One can wear these things to moderation and focus on the Adornment God desires. That's the only way it makes sense in light of Ezekiel 16.

A Bride ''adorns" herself with jewels. That would make a contradiction if Peter meant merely wearing them.

[good samaritan]

Why would you want to wear jewelry? I am a man and it isn't usually as big an issue with men. Although, when I was a teen I backslid. I can still remember getting a tattoo and my ears pierced. I remember the Spirit I felt when I did it. It grieves my heart that I did, but I know that their is a spiritual matter in all this that goes deeper. You can say it is about moderation, but I was not pierced all over my body, but it was only my ears. Was I wrong. I knew I was. How do you feel about men wearing ear rings?

BTW, God gave Moses laws concerning divorce and how do you think God feels about divorce. The ornaments of Ezekiel 16 tell us of the posterity given by God to Israel. Did God literally come down from heaven and put a bracelet on any of their hands, or is it God who blessed them with the ability to possess such things? Abraham was polygamous and accepted by God and his faith even counted him for righteousness. Was polygamy acceptable to God. I am not saying anyone's going to hell for jewelry, but we must be careful what we stamp God's approval on.

I still interpret 1 Peter 3:1-5 literally.