Pre trib rapture teaching is heresy

[Esaias]

The rapture cult claims that there is no mention of the church on earth after Revelation ch 3, and therefore the church is in heaven after ch 3, and therefore the rapture must have taken place before ch 4 begins.

This is false.

First of all, it is false because - once again - there is NO ACTUAL TEXT STATING THE CHURCH IS RAPTURED BEFORE REVELATION CHAPTER 4 BEGINS. That is an assumption based upon a predetermined belief in the rapture doctrine. Just like trinitarian "proof texts" which are not proof texts at all, just INTERPRETATIONS which require a pre existing doctrine of trinitarianism. Nobody just reading the Bible would come away with a pre trib rapture belief. They must first hear the doctrine, THEN reinterpret the Bible to fit the doctrine.

Secondly, the church IS FOUND ON THE EARTH AFTER CHAPTER 3!

Ch 4 is the four living creatures and the 24 elders seated on thrones around the throne.

Ch 5 is the four living creatures, the 24 elders, and an innumerable host of angels, and the Lamb, in the throne room.

Ch 6 has saints who were martyred calling to be avenged. It is stated they had to rest a while longer until their FELLOWSERVANTS should be killed like they were. THIS IS PROOF THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 6.

Ch 7 has the angels about to hurt the earth, but are told to wait until the servants of God had been sealed. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 7.

Ch 7 also has an innumerable company of saints around the throne out of every nation. Who are they? According to verse 14 they are those which "came out of great tribulation." The Greek is literally "which came out of the great tribulation." In fact, the Greek is actually MORE emphatic than any English translation could be - "they which came out of the tribulation the great." THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH DURING THE GREAT TRIBULATION.

Ch 8 has the angel offering the incense in heaven, "with the prayers of all the saints". Saints in heaven have no need to pray, they would be in the very literal presence of God. Therefore, THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 8.

Ch 9 has the locust army from the bottomless pit being allowed to hurt ONLY those who do not have the seal of God. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS UPON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 9.

Ch 12 states explicitly that the dragon persecutes - in the earth - those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 12.

Ch 13 describes the Beast arising from the sea and making war with the saints and persecuting them. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS UPON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 13.

Ch 14 declares "Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth." THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTER 14.

Ch 17 describes the great whore, Babylon, and chapter 18 announces her impending destruction at the hands of the Beast's horns, and a call is given to God's people to come out of Babylon to escape the judgements that are about to come upon her. THIS PROVES THERE ARE SAINTS ON THE EARTH IN CHAPTERS 17-18.

Ch 20 describes the first resurrection, which includes those who had gotten the victory over the Beast and who had rejected his mark. THIS PROVES THERE WERE SAINTS ON THE EARTH DURING THE REIGN OF THE BEAST POWER.

So much for pre trib nonsense.

[Esaias]

If you notice, the rapture cult is actually a FEAR BASED MIND CONTROL CULT, that induces people to SIN AGAINST CHRIST and DENY THE FAITH.

I will prove it.

Look at what has been presented as one of the chief arguments in favor of rapturism: FEAR OF WHAT'S COMING. Rapturism does not promote the fear OF GOD, but rather the fear of man, the fear of death, the fear of "what's coming", the fear of suffering, and the fear of persecution.

in Luke 12:4-5 Jesus warns us not to fear men, but to fear God. Rapture cultists seek to instill in you the fear of men, the "Antichrist", and the horrible persecutors who will be running rampant during the "great tribulation." Rapturism seeks to get you to disobey Jesus and fear men.

Hebrews 2:15 says our Lord came to deliver us who were captive to the devil because of the fear of death. Rapturism wants you to fear dying a horrible death, and thus deny the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

Luke 21:6 describes men's hearts failing them for fear because of what they EXPECT to come upon the earth. But who are the fearful ones? The unregenerate sinners! Hebrews 10:26-27 shows that it is the SINNERS who fear coming judgments, not sanctified believers. Pre trib rapturism wants you to have no genuine faith, but to be afraid like sinners (see Isaiah 33:14).

2 Timothy 2:12 says if we suffer with Him we shall reign with Him. Rapture cultists want you to shrink from suffering, to ROB YOU OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO REIGN WITH CHRIST. We have been CALLED TO SUFFER according to 1 Peter 2:20-21, and rapturism is a religion that offers a different "call", a call to escape suffering. It is not of God.

2 Timothy 3:12 declares that ALL who will live godly in Christ SHALL BE PERSECUTED. It is something ALL Christians are to expect. But rapturism offers a Christianity that will save you FROM PERSECUTION! It's message is the EXACT OPPOSITE of original apostolic Christianity.

Jesus said we must take up our cross and die to self. We must lose our lives for His sake. But if we try to save our life, we WILL LOSE IT. Rapturism presents a scary, frightening view of the future, focusing on the persecution (if the saints are gone, who's being persecuted???) and tribulation, suffering and death. Then once you are good and scared, they offer the " Rapture™" as your escape hatch, your getaway car. They lead your mind away from the proper Biblical attitude, and lead you into a self-centered self-seeking "save my hide" mentality. They want you to DENY THE CROSS. Why does pre trib rapture doctrine result in an effectual DENIAL OF THE CROSS? Because it is OF SATAN.

This is classic fear-based mind control cultic behavior. Scare you as much as possible, but not a fear of GOD! No, a fear of the future, death, suffering, persecution. A fear of everything GOD TOLD YOU NOT TO FEAR.

Who would come up with such a Christ-denying, cross insulting, faith killing religion? THE DEVIL, that's who.

"Believe pre trib rapture because the alternative is too scary for you to think about." Straight out of the Jehovah's (False)Witnesses playbook.

[Esaias]

If you notice, the rapture cult is actually a FEAR BASED MIND CONTROL CULT, that induces people to SIN AGAINST CHRIST and DENY THE FAITH.

I will prove it.

Look at what has been presented as one of the chief arguments in favor of rapturism: FEAR OF WHAT'S COMING. Rapturism does not promote the fear OF GOD, but rather the fear of man, the fear of death, the fear of "what's coming", the fear of suffering, and the fear of persecution.

in Luke 12:4-5 Jesus warns us not to fear men, but to fear God. Rapture cultists seek to instill in you the fear of men, the "Antichrist", and the horrible persecutors who will be running rampant during the "great tribulation." Rapturism seeks to get you to disobey Jesus and fear men.

Hebrews 2:15 says our Lord came to deliver us who were captive to the devil because of the fear of death. Rapturism wants you to fear dying a horrible death, and thus deny the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

Luke 21:6 describes men's hearts failing them for fear because of what they EXPECT to come upon the earth. But who are the fearful ones? The unregenerate sinners! Hebrews 10:26-27 shows that it is the SINNERS who fear coming judgments, not sanctified believers. Pre trib rapturism wants you to have no genuine faith, but to be afraid like sinners (see Isaiah 33:14).

2 Timothy 2:12 says if we suffer with Him we shall reign with Him. Rapture cultists want you to shrink from suffering, to ROB YOU OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO REIGN WITH CHRIST. We have been CALLED TO SUFFER according to 1 Peter 2:20-21, and rapturism is a religion that offers a different "call", a call to escape suffering. It is not of God.

2 Timothy 3:12 declares that ALL who will live godly in Christ SHALL BE PERSECUTED. It is something ALL Christians are to expect. But rapturism offers a Christianity that will save you FROM PERSECUTION! It's message is the EXACT OPPOSITE of original apostolic Christianity.

Jesus said we must take up our cross and die to self. We must lose our lives for His sake. But if we try to save our life, we WILL LOSE IT. Rapturism presents a scary, frightening view of the future, focusing on the persecution (if the saints are gone, who's being persecuted???) and tribulation, suffering and death. Then once you are good and scared, they offer the " Rapture™" as your escape hatch, your getaway car. They lead your mind away from the proper Biblical attitude, and lead you into a self-centered self-seeking "save my hide" mentality. They want you to DENY THE CROSS. Why does pre trib rapture doctrine result in an effectual DENIAL OF THE CROSS? Because it is OF SATAN.

This is classic fear-based mind control cultic behavior. Scare you as much as possible, but not a fear of GOD! No, a fear of the future, death, suffering, persecution. A fear of everything GOD TOLD YOU NOT TO FEAR.

Who would come up with such a Christ-denying, cross insulting, faith killing religion? THE DEVIL, that's who.

"Believe pre trib rapture because the alternative is too scary for you to think about." Straight out of the Jehovah's (False)Witnesses playbook.

[Originalist]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If you notice, the rapture cult is actually a FEAR BASED MIND CONTROL CULT, that induces people to SIN AGAINST CHRIST and DENY THE FAITH.

I will prove it.

Look at what has been presented as one of the chief arguments in favor of rapturism: FEAR OF WHAT'S COMING. Rapturism does not promote the fear OF GOD, but rather the fear of man, the fear of death, the fear of "what's coming", the fear of suffering, and the fear of persecution.

in Luke 12:4-5 Jesus warns us not to fear men, but to fear God. Rapture cultists seek to instill in you the fear of men, the "Antichrist", and the horrible persecutors who will be running rampant during the "great tribulation." Rapturism seeks to get you to disobey Jesus and fear men.

Hebrews 2:15 says our Lord came to deliver us who were captive to the devil because of the fear of death. Rapturism wants you to fear dying a horrible death, and thus deny the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

Luke 21:6 describes men's hearts failing them for fear because of what they EXPECT to come upon the earth. But who are the fearful ones? The unregenerate sinners! Hebrews 10:26-27 shows that it is the SINNERS who fear coming judgments, not sanctified believers. Pre trib rapturism wants you to have no genuine faith, but to be afraid like sinners (see Isaiah 33:14).

2 Timothy 2:12 says if we suffer with Him we shall reign with Him. Rapture cultists want you to shrink from suffering, to ROB YOU OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO REIGN WITH CHRIST. We have been CALLED TO SUFFER according to 1 Peter 2:20-21, and rapturism is a religion that offers a different "call", a call to escape suffering. It is not of God.

2 Timothy 3:12 declares that ALL who will live godly in Christ SHALL BE PERSECUTED. It is something ALL Christians are to expect. But rapturism offers a Christianity that will save you FROM PERSECUTION! It's message is the EXACT OPPOSITE of original apostolic Christianity.

Jesus said we must take up our cross and die to self. We must lose our lives for His sake. But if we try to save our life, we WILL LOSE IT. Rapturism presents a scary, frightening view of the future, focusing on the persecution (if the saints are gone, who's being persecuted???) and tribulation, suffering and death. Then once you are good and scared, they offer the " Rapture™" as your escape hatch, your getaway car. They lead your mind away from the proper Biblical attitude, and lead you into a self-centered self-seeking "save my hide" mentality. They want you to DENY THE CROSS. Why does pre trib rapture doctrine result in an effectual DENIAL OF THE CROSS? Because it is OF SATAN.

This is classic fear-based mind control cultic behavior. Scare you as much as possible, but not a fear of GOD! No, a fear of the future, death, suffering, persecution. A fear of everything GOD TOLD YOU NOT TO FEAR.

Who would come up with such a Christ-denying, cross insulting, faith killing religion? THE DEVIL, that's who.

"Believe pre trib rapture because the alternative is too scary for you to think about." Straight out of the Jehovah's (False)Witnesses playbook.

[Michael The Disciple]

Originally Posted by Esaias

If you notice, the rapture cult is actually a FEAR BASED MIND CONTROL CULT, that induces people to SIN AGAINST CHRIST and DENY THE FAITH.

I will prove it.

Look at what has been presented as one of the chief arguments in favor of rapturism: FEAR OF WHAT'S COMING. Rapturism does not promote the fear OF GOD, but rather the fear of man, the fear of death, the fear of "what's coming", the fear of suffering, and the fear of persecution.

in Luke 12:4-5 Jesus warns us not to fear men, but to fear God. Rapture cultists seek to instill in you the fear of men, the "Antichrist", and the horrible persecutors who will be running rampant during the "great tribulation." Rapturism seeks to get you to disobey Jesus and fear men.

Hebrews 2:15 says our Lord came to deliver us who were captive to the devil because of the fear of death. Rapturism wants you to fear dying a horrible death, and thus deny the Saving Grace of Jesus Christ.

Luke 21:6 describes men's hearts failing them for fear because of what they EXPECT to come upon the earth. But who are the fearful ones? The unregenerate sinners! Hebrews 10:26-27 shows that it is the SINNERS who fear coming judgments, not sanctified believers. Pre trib rapturism wants you to have no genuine faith, but to be afraid like sinners (see Isaiah 33:14).

2 Timothy 2:12 says if we suffer with Him we shall reign with Him. Rapture cultists want you to shrink from suffering, to ROB YOU OF THE OPPORTUNITY TO REIGN WITH CHRIST. We have been CALLED TO SUFFER according to 1 Peter 2:20-21, and rapturism is a religion that offers a different "call", a call to escape suffering. It is not of God.

2 Timothy 3:12 declares that ALL who will live godly in Christ SHALL BE PERSECUTED. It is something ALL Christians are to expect. But rapturism offers a Christianity that will save you FROM PERSECUTION! It's message is the EXACT OPPOSITE of original apostolic Christianity.

Jesus said we must take up our cross and die to self. We must lose our lives for His sake. But if we try to save our life, we WILL LOSE IT. Rapturism presents a scary, frightening view of the future, focusing on the persecution (if the saints are gone, who's being persecuted???) and tribulation, suffering and death. Then once you are good and scared, they offer the " Rapture™" as your escape hatch, your getaway car. They lead your mind away from the proper Biblical attitude, and lead you into a self-centered self-seeking "save my hide" mentality. They want you to DENY THE CROSS. Why does pre trib rapture doctrine result in an effectual DENIAL OF THE CROSS? Because it is OF SATAN.

This is classic fear-based mind control cultic behavior. Scare you as much as possible, but not a fear of GOD! No, a fear of the future, death, suffering, persecution. A fear of everything GOD TOLD YOU NOT TO FEAR.

Who would come up with such a Christ-denying, cross insulting, faith killing religion? THE DEVIL, that's who.

"Believe pre trib rapture because the alternative is too scary for you to think about." Straight out of the Jehovah's (False)Witnesses playbook.

Wow! Hard hitting and powerful truth!

[TyronePalmer]

Originally Posted by Michael The Disciple

Wow! Hard hitting and powerful truth!

Indeed it is brother Mike!

[Michael The Disciple]

And again Paul never warns us against those who are saying the day of Christ cant happen until there is a falling away first and the man of sin be revealed. Rather just the opposite.

He calls anyone teaching that the day of Christ can come before the falling away and the man of sin is revealed a false deceiver. Odd people cant read that and understand what Paul is saying.

[Michael The Disciple]

Personally, I see every eschalotology view point has holes in it.

So no one has the truth? How do you answer those who say the same thing about the Godhead? Is there any foundation truth available for us?

[Sean]

What tribe are you from, Esaias?

[Sean]

No, it is speaking of this(after the times of the gentiles).....



25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;

26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.

27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.

28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth