Billy Graham

[Hoovie]

Hello Benni,
Thank you for your offer of prayers - I accept that, and for taking time to respond to my post - even though I don’t feel it necessary to respond further (I actually agree with much of what you wrote), I think I’ll let my original post stand as written.

I have one simple question if you would be so kind to answer...
Are you of the opinion based on your understanding of scripture, that in this church age, only OP (as you have experienced) are Saved? For the sake of clarity we should exclude the mentally incompetent and small children.

Can you answer this as a Yes or No answer?

My answer is No.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

My answer is No.

My answer is YES.

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

My answer is YES.

preach! no one should be walking the truth back into a corner for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

Elijah didn't and neither did Paul. (Thanks to Pastor Lindsay for preaching about this yesterday)

1 Kings 18:17 And it came to pass, when Ahab saw Elijah, that Ahab said unto him, Art thou he that troubleth Israel?

Acts 17:5 But the Jews which believed not, moved with envy, took unto them certain lewd fellows of the baser sort, and gathered a company, and set all the city on an uproar, and assaulted the house of Jason, and sought to bring them out to the people.
6 And when they found them not, they drew Jason and certain brethren unto the rulers of the city, crying, These that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;
7 Whom Jason hath received: and these all do contrary to the decrees of Caesar, saying that there is another king, one Jesus.
8 And they troubled the people and the rulers of the city, when they heard these things.

[Hoovie]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

My answer is YES.

Thank you! This difference goes to the crux of the matter, and really determines how we are interpreting and framing the entire discussion.

For what it’s worth (and for the benefit of all readers here) it should be noted that your answer is extremely rare among Apostolic Pentecostals. I have asked the question of many people (mostly ministers and leaders) and received a very high percentage of “NO” responses while the second largest group refused to answer, desiring to leave the matter in the hands of a just God.

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by Hoovie

Thank you! This difference goes to the crux of the matter, and really determines how we are interpreting and framing the entire discussion.

For what it’s worth (and for the benefit of all readers here) it should be noted that your answer is extremely rare among Apostolic Pentecostals. I have asked the question of many people (mostly ministers and leaders) and received a very high percentage of “NO” responses while the second largest group refused to answer, desiring to leave the matter in the hands of a just God.

Elder Huss Shearer always told us to leave judgement in the hands of a just God in regards to those who died before they could be baptized, were too sick to speak in tongues, were denominational Christians, etc. He said to assume and assign Heaven or Hell was to play God. Commend them to the Lord, and trust that God is merciful to the helpless, and just in every judgement.

This in no way takes away from the truth.

And should God show mercy, who would judge Him? For mercy wouldnt be necessary for those who die in traditional Christianity, if it were the fulness of truth.

What is at stake is the soveriegnty and character of God.

[votivesoul]

I think we sometimes forget how utterly harsh and violent Jesus could be. Not that He always was, or only was, but that He could be, at times, such as below:

Luke 19:27,

27. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.

This calls to mind the offering Elijah made of the false prophets of Baal. The God who sent His Son in John 3:16 was also the LORD God of Elijah who had no qualms with His prophet hacking those dudes to pieces.

And in the verse from Luke, Jesus reminds those who are listening that they, if they should reject His Lordship over them, are going to get the Elijah at Mt. Carmel treatment, at their Judgment.

Part of this then involves all of us, and everyone else, from every direction, of those who claim they are Christians. For one cannot easily say that they have NOT rejected Jesus from reigning over them IF they are accepting as saved those who are lost, or conversely, casting off as lost those who are saved.

Because if Jesus truly reigns over you, you won't contradict Him, or speak in His name when He hasn't commanded it.

I don't know much about what Billy Graham believed or personally experienced, and I don't care to know, because it doesn't matter any more. But I can speak to his legacy, and there's a whole host of unregenerate people claiming eternal life as their own because they merely repeated a prayer they were taught to say:

https://peacewithgod.net/

"Dear God, I know I’m a sinner, and I ask for your forgiveness. I believe Jesus Christ is Your Son. I believe that He died for my sin and that you raised Him to life. I want to trust Him as my Savior and follow Him as Lord, from this day forward. Guide my life and help me to do your will. I pray this in the name of Jesus. Amen."

Only the deceived believe saying the above grants a person eternal life. Therefore, I can only surmise that only the deceived would propagate the above as the means whereby one may obtain eternal life.

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by votivesoul

I think we sometimes forget how utterly harsh and violent Jesus could be. Not that He always was, or only was, but
that He could be, at times, such as below:
Luke 19:27,
27. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence.
This calls to mind the offering Elijah made of the false prophets of Baal. The God who sent His Son in John 3:16 was also
the LORD God of Elijah who had no qualms with His prophet hacking those dudes to pieces.
And in the verse from Luke, Jesus reminds those who are listening that they, if they should reject His Lordship over them,
are going to get the Elijah at Mt. Carmel treatment, at their Judgment.

Part of this then involves all of us, and everyone else, from every direction, of those who claim they are Christians. For one
cannot easily say that they have NOT rejected Jesus from reigning over them IF they are accepting as saved those who are
lost, or conversely, casting off as lost those who are saved.
Because if Jesus truly reigns over you, you won't contradict Him, or speak in His name when He hasn't commanded it.
I don't know much about what Billy Graham believed or personally experienced, and I don't care to know, because it doesn't
matter any more. But I can speak to his legacy, and there's a whole host of unregenerate people claiming eternal life as their
own because they merely repeated a prayer they were taught to say:

https://peacewithgod.net/

Only the deceived believe saying the above grants a person eternal life. Therefore, I can only surmise that only the deceived
would propagate the above as the means whereby one may obtain eternal life.

Very well stated, Beloved

Brother Villa

[robogreg_2000]

We should let God be God and not try to pass judgement on where Billy Graham went! God is his judge just like he will judge me and the entire world.Believe it or not,many people who are baptized in Jesus name will be in hell as sure as the demons will !

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by robogreg_2000

We should let God be God and not try to pass judgement on where Billy Graham went! God is his judge just like he will judge me and the entire world.Believe it or not,many people who are baptized in Jesus name will be in hell as sure as the demons will !

We are letting God be God, by relaying what Jesus and His apostles WARNED us about. I know how hard this is, because we tend to hold an image of Jesus which is pretty much corrupt. Allow me to clarify, a Jesus who allows leeway, based on our own righteousness. Which isn't righteous, but what we feel is righteous based on our own religious standard. Billy Graham didn't preach the Gospel, he preached the vedas. He said he didn't preach God's judgement but God's love,and that he couldn't judge Muslims or Jews because that wasn't his call. A partial teaching is just that, partial, and will get everyone in trouble. God will judge us by His word, and our fruit is what is judged by God's word. Period. Posting that people who are baptized in Jesus name will be in a lake of fire with demons, doesn't negate that Jesus name baptism is scriptural truth. Just your emotional response as you judge by your own feelings. You get pulled over by a police officer for doing 100 mph in a 55 mph zone. But you have the excuse that your wife is pregnant and ready to have a baby. If he takes you and your wife to the hospital in his car, and writes you a citation and has your car towed, is he a bad cop? No, because you actually did quite a few things which are extremely dangerous. Not only to you, but to your wife, unborn child, and the community. But through emotion we look at that cop as being messed up for loading you with tickets and impounding your car when you finally get to the hospital. The Levites were supposed to TEACH the people between the holy and the profane, that isn't cussing, and smoking cigarettes. That is what is in the Law. It doesn't suit you own righteousness? Sorry, but we don't get it our way, not our will, but His be done.

[Aquila]

Paul wrote:

1 Timothy 2:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
2 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

I believe it is our duty to pray for the salvation of all men. Even those whom we might believe didn't receive the fullness of divine truth. In this, we pray for them while they are alive, praying that they come into the full knowledge of the truth and be saved. For those who came only so far, I believe that we continue to pray that they receive greater understanding. And those who perish in that state, I believe in praying that God has mercy upon them. And at that point, the book is closed. At that point, it is in the hands of God. And I believe that whatever judgment God makes concerning a soul in the judgment is righteous, just, and true. It's my last and final prayer of intercession for those who I know are in desperate need of a sovereign grace.

It is also evangelistic. For many "Christians" were deeply touched in their lives by Billy Graham. But praying for God to have mercy on the man, and leaving it in the hands of God, I leave doors open to win those who, like him, don't have the fullness of truth. But... if they read my arrogant words of condemnation, professing that Graham busted Hell wide open, that Graham was lost without hope, that he was a heretic, that he hasn't a snow ball's chance in Hell, etc., etc.... I know that my words will appall them. And my attitude and spirit will cause many of them to write me off before they've heard anything I have to say. I have family members who were touched by Billy Graham's ministry. Do you think they'll receive anything I have to say if I vehemently proclaim that I believe Billy Graham is burning in Hell???

Praying a final intercessory prayer, for a sovereign move of God's grace, isn't a sin. It is actually reveals the character and desire of the heart of that individual praying said prayer. It testifies that he or she desires all men to be saved. It testifies to that individual's trust and belief in God's sovereignty. And it testifies to their unwillingness to make eternal judgments based on outward appearances. To me, I believe it reflects a greater spiritual maturity than the spitting and fussing spirit that insists with clinched fists that someone is burning in Hell because they "followeth not us".