Sola,
The doctrine of the eternal Son is being discussed over at the GNC. I'm involved in three threads and soon to be involved in two more which address the scriptures you chose in Colossians and Hebrews. If you want to go over there and discuss it, it would be much easier for me than trying to be in both places. The discussions are on the Answering Orthodox Trinitarianism section of the board and each passage has its own thread. There is also a thread here in Deep Waters about the eternal Son. Surprisingly on this topic I agree with Chan!
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Originally Posted by sola gratia
2) the equivocation of the word, God
Not sure what you mean here…..
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Here's an example of what I mean:
Below I asked a Trinitarian to interpret the word, God.
How do you interpret the word, God, in these 8 examples?
1. Jesus is God. Ontologically.
2. God is a Trinity. Relationally.
3. The God of our Fathers. God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
4. And the Word was God. Ontologically.
5. God the Father One of the persons within God
6. Being in the form of God. Ontologically.
7. In the beginning, God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
8. 2Cor5: 18-19 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;
To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation ....I'd say the Father.
As you can see, he attributes multiple meanings to the word, God, depending on the context. I'm not sure why in #8 he chose to say "Father" because I think this verse would cause a problem for Trinitarians as it is vague.
A Trinitarian will say the Father is God and the Son is God and the Holy Spirit is God but they are not each other. (yet there is only one God) the word, God, in these instances they say means nature, the divine persons are individually 100% God. (Like a 100% cotton t-shirt) Then they will use the word, God, to mean 'the Trinity'. In the OT the word, God, is usually the Trinity because there is no incarnate Son to make a differentiation.
In the NT they will say 99% of the time the word, God, is referring to the Father, and the meaning will be found in context. In John 1:1 the word, God, is used twice. 1:1b and the Word was with God, 1:1c and the Word was God. Same Greek word, Theos, but they attribute different meanings to each. 1:1b they read as Father and 1:1 c they read as nature or God in a qualitative sense.
The word, God, is used in such a way by Trinitarians to suit their purposes. When I see the word, God, I think, my Creator. I don't have to rationalize which God ie: Father, Son, Holy Spirit or the Trinity as a whole, the Bible is speaking of. I don't think Jesus had a problem figuring out who God was either.
The quote below was written by a Unitarian:
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Trinitarians end up having three Gods as to person and 1 God as to nature. So in one respect they have three Gods and in another they have one God..
It makes it sound like Trinitarians are playing a shuffle game where they keep shuffling the word "nature" to the forefront and saying "See? We believe in ONE God"....to avoid the fact that when it comes to PERSONS they believe in THREE Gods
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3) the absence of a Trinity in the OT See the first post on this thread by MOW and also click onto the link below:
Thank you for all the commentaries on the word Echad and Elohim. They are prime examples of Trinitarians reading their doctrine into scripture. The commentaries addressed the Shema:
Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:
On the surface a person without any preconceived ideas would read this as being one in number not a compound unity or a united YHWH. A child would read this is such a way. Then to add to it all the singular pronouns associate with the LORD, like I, me, myself, he, him, his, etc found in the OT, a simpleton would easily deduce God to be one in number, monotheistic.
The quote below is taken from David Bernard's book
The Oneness of God. In the Shema...one LORD is the same as one YHWH. YHWH according to DB means "He is" when spoken of in the third person or "I am" when God is speaking. If the word, one or echad, in the shema is meant to be a compound unity and not a numerical one then it doesn't seem to fit grammatically in describing a YHWH which is represented by first person singular pronouns.
Quote:
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Yahweh (Jehovah) is the redemptive name of God in the Old Testament (Exodus 6:3-8), and the unique name by which the one true God distinguished Himself in the Old Testament from all other gods (Isaiah 42:8). It means the "Self-Existing One or the Eternal One." This concept also appears in the phrases "I AM THAT I AM" and "I AM," used by God of Himself. Flanders and Cresson explain that Yahweh is the third person form of the verb "to be" in Hebrew. [7] Yahweh means "He is." When used by God, the verb form is in the first person, or "I Am." In other words, Yahweh and "I Am" are different forms of the same verb. Furthermore, both connote an active (possibly causative or creative) existence rather than just a passive existence.
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http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...al/One-Ch3.htm
Here's a link to something Praxeas wrote on this:
http://www.goodnewscafe.net/forums/s...8&postcount=19
Something from another Oneness believer:
http://www.christiandiscussionforums...86&postcount=7
My soul followeth hard after thee....Love one another with a pure heart fervently. 
Hybrid Mode
