John MacArthur Didn't like to speak in tongues.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

That's not what is being discussed though.



I have a rule, that I do not make any decisions based solely on what some antichrist says as a taunt.



There is no evidence I have seen from Scripture that Jesus' blood was placed on the mercy seat of the ark of the covenant. There's also no evidence I have seen from extra-biblical sources to support such an assertion. All we have is Ron Wyatt's claim, which was not and apparently can not be verified. So there we are.

Meanwhile Epstein's best friends are all evangelically religious today making a national saint out of a podcaster's extremely suspicious death in order to beat the war drums for antichrist's next war. Oh, and apparently being anti-antichrist is now "hate speech", or so I've heard.

That's a bullseye.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

Rebecca Tourbiaire goes into the proto-Aramaic in the discussion here:

Brother Steven, you offer us Rebecca Tourbiaire? Why? I looked her up and only found this thread on a Google Search. Who is she, and why should we care?

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

Rebecca Tourbiaire goes into the proto-Aramaic in the discussion here:

THE ARK AND THE BLOOD – The discovery of the Ark of the Covenant
https://arkfiles.net/the-ark-and-the...-the-covenant/

Close to the end of this video Ron Wyatt let's everyone know when all would be revealed when Seventh Day Adventist doctrine is fulfilled.

The Seventh-day Adventist understanding of the Three Angels’ Messages—including the centrality of the gospel in its end-time proclamation, the Sabbath as the final expression of loyalty to the Creator, the final investigative judgment that leads to the Loud Cry and the close of probation, Satan’s counterfeit worship and enforcement of Sunday worship—are all consistent with Bible teaching and Ellen White’s writings.

Adventist understanding of the Three Angels’ Messages following 1844 unfolded during the 1840s and 1850s. It followed a pattern of Scriptural study with confirmation and practical enrichment from Ellen White’s visions. A careful study of this history continuing throughout Ellen White’s lifetime reveals a consistency regarding the major issues, including the role of the Papacy, Sunday observance, and the Mark of the Beast.

Her clearest statements which are in harmony with her earlier views are found in the 1911 edition of The Great Controversy, published four years before her death.

“Both the prophecy of Daniel 8:14, ‘Unto two thousand and three hundred days; then shall the sanctuary be cleansed,’ and the first angel’s message, ‘Fear God, and give glory to Him; for the hour of His judgment is come,’ pointed to Christ’s ministration in the most holy place, to the investigative judgment, and not to the coming of Christ for the redemption of His people and the destruction of the wicked” (1911 GC 424). She connected the earlier and later Seventh-day Adventist views on all three angels in Revelation 14 with these words: “The first and second messages were given in 1843 and 1844, and we are now under the proclamation of the third; but all three of the messages are still to be proclaimed” (Ms. 32, 1896).

Ellen White was very clear on the meaning of the seal of God and the mark of the beast: “The Sabbath will be the great test of loyalty, for it is the point of truth especially controverted. When the final test shall be brought to bear upon men, then the line of distinction will be drawn between those who serve God and those who serve Him not. While the observance of the false sabbath in compliance with the law of the state, contrary to the fourth commandment, will be an avowal of allegiance to a power that is in opposition to God, the keeping of the true Sabbath, in obedience to God’s law, is an evidence of loyalty to the Creator. While one class, by accepting the sign of submission to earthly powers, receive the mark of the beast, the other, choosing the token of allegiance to divine authority, receive the seal of God” (1911 GC 605).

While it is necessary to refrain from being too specific about how the final events will unfold there has been consistent biblical and Ellen White clarity on the major issues regarding the role of the Sabbath and Satan’s counterfeit. We would do well to heed Jehoshaphat’s counsel from long ago, “Believe in the LORD your God, and you shall be established; believe His prophets, and you shall prosper” (2 Chron. 20:20, NKJV).

“There is no question based on the evidence that Ellen White maintained a continuity of understanding and did not change her position,” states Merlin Burt, Director of the Ellen G. White Estate. “It is Bible based and confirmed and enriched by her visions.” For a more detailed article on this topic, see “A Brief Overview of the Unfolding Seventh-day Adventist Understanding of the Three Angels’ Messages in Connection with Revelation 13 and 18 and Ellen White’s Role”

https://executivecommittee.adventist...d-time-events/

The Ron Wyatt story hinges on the four angels he meets in this cave. Also if you take the time to go through all the material on Ron Wyatt, his story changes. Obviously Ron Wyatt never dreamed that information would be so easily accessed in the future. That all of his talks on the subject would be able to be viewed one after the other. To see his story change with each talk he would give. 900 lb Mercy Seat? Breaking through to the cave, to later the cave becoming a chamber? Complete with all the furniture of the temple? We only have a out of focus photo on the supposed ark. No pictures of anything else.

I would still love for Steven Avery to prove his defense of Ron Wyatt.

The LDS built a whole religion on a guy who listened to some angels. So, did the Muslims. With a guy who heard from an angel in a cave. William Branham talked to angels. He also had a ring of smoke angel. William Branham also had angels who didn't photograph well. Angels, Marian Apparitions, Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster, and UFOs seem to never get in focus? But we are all supposed to believe them. No evidence, no scriptural back up, just some teary eyed profession from a guy who looked like an Indiana Jones Foster Brooks.

[Evang.Benincasa]

In the website Steven Avery supplied us with, the narrator of the video tells us that Ron Wyatt told the Israeli authorities about his finding. They told him to tell no one and keep the information a secret. When Israel wants someone to keep a secret, they kill the person. In this way their secret is safe.

[diakonos]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

They told him to tell no one and keep the information a secret. When Israel wants someone to keep a secret, they kill the person. In this way their secret is safe.

Or any government… I can’t imagine some official was like, “Shh, don’t tell anyone!”

Or

ששש! אל תגיד לאף אחד!

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by diakonos

Or any government… I can’t imagine some official was like, “Shh, don’t tell anyone!”

Or

ששש! אל תגיד לאף אחד!

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

In the website Steven Avery supplied us with, the narrator of the video tells us that Ron Wyatt told the Israeli authorities about his finding. They told him to tell no one and keep the information a secret. When Israel wants someone to keep a secret, they kill the person. In this way their secret is safe.

This did not occur as frequently 40 years ago.
(There had been the USS Liberty in 1967 but that was a different dynamic.)

Some have conjectured about Ron's relatively early passing (1933-1999).

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

I would still love for Steven Avery to prove his defense of Ron Wyatt.

You made your position clear with your acrid liar accusations.
So I tried to show you why this is a dubious tactic.

You also made it clear that you embrace all the uncertainty you can find on Biblical archaeology.

And I have happy to supply helpful information for the sincere readers, but I am not making any attempt to "prove" this or that.

Sometimes your "gotcha" style of questioning actually raises interesting points, and I like to learn for myself more excellently as well. You may still stick with doubt, confusion, and railing accusations, but at least some readers may learn, including yours truly.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

You made your position clear with your acrid liar accusations.
So I tried to show you why this is a dubious tactic.

You also made it clear that you embrace all the uncertainty you can find on Biblical archaeology.

And I have happy to supply helpful information for the sincere readers, but I am not making any attempt to "prove" this or that.

Sometimes your "gotcha" style of questioning actually raises interesting points, and I like to learn for myself more excellently as well. You may still stick with doubt, confusion, and railing accusations, but at least some readers may learn, including yours truly.

Brother Steven, I thought as much. But, I also thought you might be sincere in having a discussion. After going through this subject with you and how you kept dodging any kind of reasonable discourse. I could see you obviously understood full well that Ron Wyatt and his stories can't be proven. As far as holding a debate concerning the supposed blood sample of Jesus Christ there is no way possible to have such a debate. For the simple reason NO BLOOD SAMPLE exists. Did Ron Wyatt lie? Yes, because like a phony Navy Seal who can't name the number of his BUD/S class, you and Ron Wyatt lack the information on who the Israeli scientists were, or the laboratory. Also, the whole hullabaloo on the ark discovery and why we can't see it? Is all based on Seventh Adventist Eschatology. When Ron Wyatt saw that people swallowed his baloney on the angels (also Israeli government) instructing him to keep it a secret. Because all would be revealed when the Sunday Law would be enforced. He found a group who would not question his story further. What I find sad, is all the good people being led astray by a grifter. What is even more disheartening is that Ron Wyatt still has defenders who will attempt to protect these false stories of 24 chromosome Jesus, 900 lbs of mercy seat, blood samples scraped off with a pocket knife, all complete with a crew of angels directing his blurry photos of the ark. It's heartbreaking. Those poor people being duped by Foster Brooks dressed up like Indiana Jones.

Yet, Ron Wyatt isn't the first to come along with the whole "I spoke to angels, and they told me" routine. Joseph Smith was (and still is) able to lead generations to ruin. Steve, I thought you believed in telling the truth? If we were discussing your thoughts on the name of Yahweh, you would of salthered this thread down with your links to pure bible forum. You would of typed out paragraphs defending your position. You know that Ron Wyatt was a grifter, you know he lied, and his kids were helping their dad push the lie.
Brother Steve, I really hope that one day you'll snap out of it. You owe no man anything. I still believe you want the truth. Just focus on the items I discussed. blood sample, no evidence. 24 chromosomes Jesus, not an item for debate, because we have no blood sample. Ark of the covenant no evidence. But you must ask yourself this question, if everything about the exposing the tablets of Moses hinges on the prophecies of Ellen G White?

Then like all the other items which have no evidence, then you must believe the prophecy as well. You would have to, because Ron Wyatt didn't say it was his opinion, or that he read it in "proto Aramaic" or Reformed Egyptian. This was told to him by the ANGEL. To believe any of the Ron Wyatt story which has zero evidence, all based on the word of this man. Then you can't pick and choose what you would like to believe. Because if the old boy lied about any of it, the whole story is baloney.

Also it is no on me to prove Ron Wyatt wrong. It is all on you as a Ron Wyatt believer to prove that he was telling the truth. Pray about this Brother Steven, and ponder it.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Brother Steven, I thought as much. But, I also thought you might be sincere in having a discussion. After going through this subject with you and how you kept dodging any kind of reasonable discourse. I could see you obviously understood full well that Ron Wyatt and his stories can't be proven.

Right, to skeptics and unbelievers in general, nothing can be "proven".

The very fact that you insist on "proof" simply reflects your lack of good faith.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You know that Ron Wyatt was a grifter, you know he lied, and his kids were helping their dad push the lie.

Another example.
I would prefer that you did not brazenly fabricate.
Makes you the liar.

The actual skeptics are far more honest than you.

Your acrid posting just clogs up the airways in case there are some folks here who do want to discuss all the amazing Biblical archaeology issues.

========================

My studies today were going back to comparing the blood research on the shroud of Turin with the test from Ron Wyatt showing 24 chromosomes. And I was trying to follow some of the material from Kelly P. Kearse on the shroud. And this leads to some other little known study. (Yes, I am pro-shroud, the argument RCC relic is really weak and in a sense chronologically false, they were late to the table.)

All this is not my highest priority, one reason I don't write long essays when someone says "jump". However, when there is good conversation, I try to give it a go!

Notice that when I did carefully answer specific questions here, it was like water off a Pentecostal Duck's Back.