John MacArthur Didn't like to speak in tongues.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

Which is it Steven? Is the shroud legit? Or is the face cloth legit? Can't be both.

Many people believe both are legit, that they are complementary.

"History on the Sudarium of Ovideo with Dr. Mark Guscin"
Youtube - Interview with Guy Powell

This was a good listen this weekend.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

You don't see anything wrong with this?

I see a lot wrong with your crazed posting and calling people liars whom you had never heard and your total fail on Logic 101.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by votivesoul

an elder and minister in the Lord

What do you know of this gentleman's ministry?

Sincere question.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

Many people believe both are legit, that they are complementary.

"History on the Sudarium of Ovideo with Dr. Mark Guscin"
Youtube - Interview with Guy Powell

This was a good listen this weekend.

Basilica of the Holy Blood holds a relic of the supposed blood of Christ. Many "people" believe that also to be legit. Lucia dos Santos and her cousins Francisco and Jacinta Marto reported seeing the Virgin Mary in 1917 in a town called Fatima, Portugal. Many "people" believe that also to be legit. Padre Pio supposedly had five stigmata wounds on his hands, feet, and side which were thought to be physically present on his body for 50 years, along with a secret wound on his shoulder from the weight of the cross. Many "people" believe that was legit. The Spear of Longinus, also known as the Holy Lance, is the spear said to have pierced the side of Jesus Christ during his crucifixion. Supposedly holds great power and anyone or any government who posses the spear will be invincible. Many "people" believe this is legit.

You see dear readers, lots of people believe lots of things. Lucky rabbits foot, praying the rosary, splashing yourself with water blessed by a priest. But, our Bible doesn't mention that we are to place our faith in amulets, or holy relics. The Gospel is silent on obtaining bloody clothing of Jesus. The portions of His cross, or the rusted nails which pierced His flesh. For a period, the bronze serpent Moses made became an object of worship for the people of Israel, who burned incense to it and called it Nehushtan. This idolatry was eventually corrected by King Hezekiah, who shattered the bronze serpent to stop the people from worshiping it as an idol. Misguided individuals do the same thing with Medieval Roman Catholic relics. Or in the case of the lost soul Ron Wyatt, who claim that he had spoke to angels to back up his false female prophet. All, to lead the people away from true Gospel of Jesus Christ.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

I see a lot wrong with your crazed posting and calling people liars whom you had never heard and your total fail on Logic 101.

Well Steven, you have done very little to prove your case in defending Ron Wyatt. I discussed my motives on having this discussion with you, with another elder. made my intentions clear. I was stupid to think you were a man who wanted truth. Through a discussion we both could have got to the bottom of all the Ron Wyatt baloney. I believed you to be sincere, and therefore would ponder the blaring contradictions in Ron Wyatt's fabricated stories. You ran full tilt when I held your feet to the fire concerning the blood sample of Ron Wyatt's 24 chromosome Jesus. Knowing full well that there was absolutely no possible way to produce any evidence. You later would tell me I needed faith? Your argument through the thread was no argument at all. Seeing that was way too much humbug in Ron's story concerning the ark. You see Steven, that's where I parted company with Mr Wyatt all those years ago. It was about the ark, and the lack thereof. I was way kinder with you, then the old ministers who showed me how the cow ate the proverbial cabbage. They weren't on a forum, they took care of this issue in real time. I appreciated the correction. The more I looked into the stories of the Wyatt family the more I understood the elders who helped me see.

But, not you Steven, you already know everything there is to know. You are the pitcher and everyone else is the catcheer. When they see you coming they know you are the man who can tell them about Yahweh Pagan God, Homestead Heritage sour grapes, and Ron Wyatt is the digging apostle.

[Steven Avery]

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

. Through a discussion we both could have got to the bottom of all the Ron Wyatt baloney.

Clearly, your decision was already made, you were not interested in searching out truth.
Verbal pretense.

Originally Posted by Evang.Benincasa

. Seeing that was way too much humbug in Ron's story concerning the ark. .... It was about the ark

One question, do you have any difficulties in Ron's narratives outside the Ark of the Covenant?

Including

Noah's Ark
Sodom and Gomorroah
the Exodus

And I am not asking if you accept each discovery as truth, simply whether you accept his presentations as honest, truthful and fair.

We both should understand that the professional archaeologists and Christian writers will offer multiple interpretations, sometimes accepting Ron's locations, sometimes not.

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

Clearly, your decision was already made, you were not interested in searching out truth.
Verbal pretense.

Steven, for someone who complains about me using the accusation of lying against the Wyatts, you sure don't hesitate in accusing others. Have a nice day.

[votivesoul]

Originally Posted by Steven Avery

What do you know of this gentleman's ministry?

Sincere question.

More than you.

Sincere answer.

[Esaias]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Hebrews 9:23-24 KJV
It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. [24] For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:

This seems to me to teach that whether Christ's blood dripped down onto the actual physical ark of the covenant/mercy seat or not is irrelevant. For Christ was purifying not the things made with hands (like the ark of the covenant) but heavenly things of which the ark of the covenant and the mercy seat were simply temporary physical representations.

Here is a somewhat more detailed explication of the subject, and explains in part why I now believe that the blood of Jesus most definitely did NOT "drip on to the mercy seat": ---> https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.co...0&postcount=18

[Evang.Benincasa]

Originally Posted by Esaias

Here is a somewhat more detailed explication of the subject, and explains in part why I now believe that the blood of Jesus most definitely did NOT "drip on to the mercy seat": ---> https://www.apostolicfriendsforum.co...0&postcount=18

"'Investigative atonement' or more commonly known as the Investigative Judgment is a doctrine primarily held by Seventh-day Adventists, which describes a phase in heaven after Christ's ascension where the sins of believers are reviewed to determine their fitness for eternal life, analogous to the cleansing of the ancient Israelite sanctuary on the Day of Atonement. This judgment is not by works but a validation of faith in Christ, demonstrating that believers are truly united with Him and will receive the promised kingdom."


Ron Wyatt made up the the 24 Chromosome Jesus' blood dripping through an earthquake crack and falling on the Mercy Seat. He made it up because of his belief of the "Investigative Judgement" Where Jesus began a new phase of ministry in the heavenly sanctuary in 1844. The SDA sees Daniel 8:14, which speaks of the "cleansing of the sanctuary" after 2,300 days, as their proof text.