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  #1  
Old 09-05-2007, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by BobDylan View Post
Hazlewood has no spiritual authority over anyone. My post that you quoted was an example of how Hazlewook is a "moneygrabbing" machine. Missionaries only get about 1/3 of the monies they raise once it goes through FD....
BD - you said that before and several people disputed it. Do you have any actual figures to substantiate that claim?

From my recollections of my time there- what I remember was that on the average there was something like 10 - 20 percent of the total PIMs that were "swallowed up" by HQ. This included a "tithe" from the FMD to WEC's admin fund for the facility, office space, additional staffing and printing costs. There was a dispute way back then called, "The Illegal 10%" where some pastors (not missionaries) protested against the admin fee. The FM director spent about 2 years explaining the admin costs and virtually every missionary from around that time concurred that it was reasonable.

There were also some missionaries that were more successful at raising PIM support than others. In a spirit of cooperation it was seen rather frequently that one missionary would "share" PIM support with another or others. This would of course result in the generous missionaries' "percentage" being much higher than others- but it got people through deputation and back on the field much more quickly.

I have never heard or seen anything that suggests 2/3 (66%) of a missionaries budget is kept by HQ. Why do you keep citing that figure? Think about it- it's a ridiculous number to even throw around.

And to call WEC a "money grabbing machine" is also uncalled for. Look at my past posts - I'm hardly an apologist for the UPCI or WEC. But c'mon! Your exaggerations belittle the real objections that we raise.
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Old 09-05-2007, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDylan View Post
Hazlewood has no spiritual authority over anyone. My post that you quoted was an example of how Hazlewook is a "moneygrabbing" machine. Missionaries only get about 1/3 of the monies they raise once it goes through FD....
Where are you getting your information Bob D? If that was the case I don't see how a missionary would even be able to stay a whole term in their field of labour - particularly in some places.

Unless things have changed a whole lot then your 1/3 figure seems "off". How did you arrive at that anyhow?
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
Where are you getting your information Bob D? If that was the case I don't see how a missionary would even be able to stay a whole term in their field of labour - particularly in some places.

Unless things have changed a whole lot then your 1/3 figure seems "off". How did you arrive at that anyhow?
They stay their whole term because they raise three times what they need. They get 1/3 of what they raise, Hazlewood gets the other two thirds. The missionary gets what they need, but Hazlewood gets twice as much as the missionary gets. This is from the mouth of a veteran UPCI missionary.
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:35 AM
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Originally Posted by BobDylan View Post
They stay their whole term because they raise three times what they need. They get 1/3 of what they raise, Hazlewood gets the other two thirds. The missionary gets what they need, but Hazlewood gets twice as much as the missionary gets. This is from the mouth of a veteran UPCI missionary.
No, they don't raise 3 times what they need. They raise 2x what they need.

I'm checking your figures out here when I get to talk to missionary friends and FMD personnel while at GC. I really think your numbers are inaccurate.
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Old 09-06-2007, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
No, they don't raise 3 times what they need. They raise 2x what they need.

I'm checking your figures out here when I get to talk to missionary friends and FMD personnel while at GC. I really think your numbers are inaccurate.
That would be fine, and if I am incorrect then I will retract my assertion there. However I can say that I obtained this information from a missionary who has been on the field for nearly 3 decades and was recently on deputation (sp?).
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Old 09-06-2007, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
No, they don't raise 3 times what they need. They raise 2x what they need.

I'm checking your figures out here when I get to talk to missionary friends and FMD personnel while at GC. I really think your numbers are inaccurate.
With the slowdown in the economy they may need more now....

And I can see inflation suddenly eroding a dollar given less 4-6 % admin and so on and so on becoming 66 cents on the field.

Ever price something on a European website? Say, ever come to the states and see how many CDN$$ compare to US$$ on a given day?

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Old 09-06-2007, 04:35 AM
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Dylan's post (#8) suggests this generation doesn't know God. This generation is waiting for the previous generation to die off (metaphorically speaking) so they can inherit the promise land. Although there are a few Joshuas and Calebs the majority of the previous generation is in a wilderness mode and doesn't have a clue. There is a generation ready to possess the land.

If anyone remembers, I was lamblasted because I commented nayc is 5-6 years behind cultural relevance. I was basically accused of having a bad attitude. Who has the bad attitude now? Hats off to organizers for attempting to bridge the gap.
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by tv1a View Post
Dylan's post (#8) suggests this generation doesn't know God. This generation is waiting for the previous generation to die off (metaphorically speaking) so they can inherit the promise land. Although there are a few Joshuas and Calebs the majority of the previous generation is in a wilderness mode and doesn't have a clue. There is a generation ready to possess the land.

If anyone remembers, I was lamblasted because I commented nayc is 5-6 years behind cultural relevance. Hats off to organizers for attempting to bridge the gap.
Is "lamblasted" like a lamb chop? All kidding aside, I agree with you.
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Old 09-02-2007, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by BobDylan View Post
The REAL sign of the times is what went on at NAYC....

The UPCI is headed in the wrong direction my friend....

It truly is sad that Lighthouse Ranch, Tupelo, etc. etc. etc. will have to suffer BECAUSE OF THE BAD DECISIONS OF THE LEADERSHIP (I.E. HAZLEWOOD) OF THE UPCI... not the local pastors who disagree with the direction of the organization. I know pastors, who instead of routing their monies through UPCI foreign missions (and having about 2/3 taken out for "administrative costs") are sending their monies directly to the missionaries themselves, and they are receiving 100% of the money, instead of just 1/3.... Also, pastors can support Lighthouse Ranch and Tupelo directly without having to route their money through Hazlewood. What the local pastor are trying to do is withold support the worldly agendas of hazlewood moneygrabbers and displays of carnality as seen at NAYC...

JMHO

If they did this then they are not abiding by the manual that they signed to follow. What does this make them?
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Old 09-02-2007, 08:55 AM
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Isn't sending missionaries money directly against the rules? Using UC logic ... How is that any different from owning a tv?
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Originally Posted by vrblackwell View Post
If they did this then they are not abiding by the manual that they signed to follow. What does this make them?
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