Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony
Can a person be saved without a Pastor?
I have been reading the threads on salvation that have been up lately and I just want to scream....You can go thru every step that is out there and your salvation is still unsure......There is really know way to know if you are saved or not.
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Hi Harmony. You really bring up some important points. That nagging doubt about one's own salvation and the doubts about the salvation of others still plagues Christian fellowship after 2,000 years.
From reading the history of Charles Parham, the man who introduced the teaching of "Holy Ghost baptism evidenced by speaking in other tongues..." I'm getting the impression that he was plagued by many of the same questions. This is why he spent years trying to get the "evidence" to operate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony
I am only going off my experience in attending a UPC church all of my life. Absolute submission to the Pastor was KEY to your salvation. If you felt God leading you in a certain way on a "matter" you still needed to have the approval of the Pastor, if they didn't think it was right they expected you to follow there opinion and yes, your salvation was at stake....there are so many weird mind games that were played....and they are all tied into salvation, if you don't adhere to what they wanted then you are in rebellion, and we know that nobody will make it to heaven in a rebellious state!
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Putting such confidence in one man is often a formula for error. I too was brought up with that mind set. After high school when I wanted to go to college, I asked my pastor about it. He angrily denounced college as a breeding ground for "secular humanism." So I didn't go to college.
I met K.H., the president of an Apostolic Bible school and I was determined then to go to CLC. When I brought the idea to my pastor, he at first approved and then after consulting with some of his friends he came back and told me, "That K.H. has a real problem with compromise..." so I went to another, struggling Bible School. That school closed down at least twice in the one year that I was there and the president got tangled up in a fraud indictment (he was later cleared).
The funny thing is; over the years, with just one exception, everyone else who came out of the same church went to CLC with the pastor's blessing! And none of them really sought his advice, they just told him where they wanted to go and had him sign the approval. And, almost all of that same pastor's children went on to secular colleges, a couple getting advanced degrees. I asked his son about it once and he rather sympathetically told me, (words to the effect) "
You've got to be responsible for your own future."
So, "playing by the rules" cost me when it came to obedience to the pastor. Many of our pastors just aren't trained or educated. We run some terrible risks by listening to them and taking their advice at times.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harmony
I have been away from that influence for several years. I have a real concern for family that is still in the church. I am very aware of the "Godly Fear" they live in. They are not sure of there salvation. They don't think on thier own....they think through a filter of "What would my pastor think"..not what would God think....
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This is truly a sad state of affairs and it is responsible for the divisions that hinder the growth of Apostolic churches. The pastors should be equipping people to think for themselves.
I truly believe that pastors will have to give an account for the souls that God has sent their way (
Hebrews 13:17). We take that scripture in an authoritarian way, which will cost some pastors dearly on the day of reckoning. When the pastor gives "an order" that is to be "obeyed" he should really be giving "tools" that will enable a saint to apply unchanging principles in an ever changing world.
If the only "tool" the saint has is
"because the pastor said so...!" then most likely
that pastor will suffer grief at the time of accounting.
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