CeCe Winans under fire for singing at Gay church

[stmatthew]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I would use a homosexual before I would use a gossiper anyday of the week. The church is generally homophobic. They think homosexuality is an abomination while on the pulpit sits a preacher of Ehud like porportions. A homosexual doesn't do near as much damage as a gossiping pentecostal. God looks at sin the same way, just because one does a little shockamoo doen't mean their sin is any worse than homosexuality.

Contrary to popular belief Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't destroyed because of homosexual tendancies. They were destroyed because they did not take care of the children and the poor. Exekiel 16:49

This is the most ignorant statement I have read in a while. In saying this, YOU are placing one sin as better than another, when NO sin is right in Gods eye's.

[NewWine]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I would use a homosexual before I would use a gossiper anyday of the week. The church is generally homophobic. They think homosexuality is an abomination while on the pulpit sits a preacher of Ehud like porportions. A homosexual doesn't do near as much damage as a gossiping pentecostal. God looks at sin the same way, just because one does a little shockamoo doen't mean their sin is any worse than homosexuality.

Contrary to popular belief Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't destroyed because of homosexual tendancies. They were destroyed because they did not take care of the children and the poor. Exekiel 16:49

I would use a homosexual before I would use a gossiper anyday of the week. The church is generally homophobic.

We know that the first Christians were those in the book of Acts. And we know that those in the book of Acts that were called Christians were those that believed in baptism (in the Name of Jesus Christ) and receiving the Holy Ghost (evidence of speaking in other tongues). If you line up with the book of Acts than according to the word of God you are a Christian. Therefore, having said that I will say this.

No Christian can find sin acceptable, if they do then they should hit their knees and get their heart right with the Lord. Sin is sin, but not all sin is termed an "abomination". Homosexuality is a sin just as various other things are, however, Leviticus 18:22 (ref: Romans 1:24) discusses homosexuality and states "it is abomination". Thus, this ungodly spirit of homosexuality is not only a sin, but an abomination.

Your statement is spiritually troubling. Because NO CHRISTIAN that is FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST would ever make such a statement. For if one has been grafted into the body of Christ, they would never suggest or state in any way that they would desire to use demons. "The church is generally homophobic. They think homosexuality is an abomination...." I say unto you THE CHURCH IS RIGHT...HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION according to the Word of God.

while on the pulpit sits a preacher of Ehud like porportions.
Judges 3:12-31
We find in verse 12 the Israelites have done evil in the sight of the Lord and the Lord has brought the Moabites against them, by strengthening Eglon the Moabite king. The children of Israel cried out unto the Lord and God sent them a Benjamite, Ehud. Ehud made a dagger which he concealed according to scripture and went before Eglon. While alone with Eglon, Ehud said unto Eglon verse 20 "I have a message from God unto thee" and he killed Eglon with the dagger. Further down in verse 27 Eglon blew the trumpet in the mountain of Ephraim and says unto the Israelites "Follow after me for the Lord hath delivered your enemies the Moabites into your hand". The Israelites go on to slay the Moabites. You are mistaken in you statement; perhaps you meant to say "Eglon"; because a preacher of "Ehud like proportions" is not a negative thing.

[NewWine]

Contrary to popular belief Sodom and Gomorrah wasn't destroyed because of homosexual tendancies. They were destroyed because they did not take care of the children and the poor. Exekiel 16:49

Ezekiel 16: 49 tv1a you conviently left out the preceding verses and those that follow. Sodom and Gomorrah was not destroyed simply because of not taking care of children and the poor as you have emphatically stated. Do not twist the scripture and take it out of context.

Ezekiel 16:35-59 The Lord is speaking to the Israelites as they are being punished for their sins. The Lord tells them in verse 36 "Thus saith the Lord God; Because they filthiness was poured out, and they nakedness discovered through thy whoredoms with they lovers, and with all the idols of they abominations, and by the blood of they children, which thou didst give unto me;" The Lord goes on to tell them that he will take their jewels from them and leave them naked and bare. Now in verse 46 Sodom is mentioned "that dwelleth at thy right hand, is Sodom and her daughters". verse 47-50 "Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as if that were a very little thing, thous wast corrupted more than they in all they ways. As I live, saith the Lord God, Sodom thy sister had not done, she nor her daughters, as thou has done, thou and thy daughters. Behold, this was the iniquity of they sister Sodom, pride, fullness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy. And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw good”. From here the Lord continues to talk about Sodom and the abominations that were committed.

What else does the bible say about the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah?

Sodom is first discussed in the 18th chapter. Abraham, the Lord, and the two angels were conversing. The Lord had already sent the angels to Sodom.

Genesis 18:20 “And the Lord said, Because the cry of Sodom and Gomorrah is great, and because their sin is very grievous; I will go down now, and see whether they have done altogether according to the cry of it, which is come unto me; and if not, I will know”

Abraham asks of the Lord
Genesis 18:23 “And Abraham drew near, and said Wilt thou also destroy the righteous with the wicked?”

God destroyed those that were wicked in Sodom. As you continue to read the 18th chapter you find the “men” had already started toward Sodom, in the Genesis 19:1 we find that those men are the two angels. Lot met them, took them into his house, and the house was surrounded by Sodomites.

Genesis 19:5,7-8 “And they called unto Lot; and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? bring them out unto us, that we may know them” Lot goes out and says “And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly. Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof” The men in the street wanted the angels and tried to break the door to get to them, which lead to them being struck with blindness, that they may not find the door.

Some have tried to argue these scriptures refer to customs, which is not the case. However, it is clear in the scriptures that the statement “that we may know them” was not referring to know the two angels in a friendly manner. This is proven by what Lot says “do not so wickedly” and “I have two daughters which have not known man”. “Known man” refers to having been with a man e.g. to have sex. Lot offered up his daughters because they were virgins, and those in the streets wanted the two angels for sexual immorality. Also take note of Lot’s sons in laws.
The daughters of Lot were married yet they had never known a man. When you are married you consummate your marriage; which is done by a husband and wife coming to know each other. Further down in the chapter Lot goes out to his son in laws to warn them of the coming destruction.

Genesis 19:14 “And Lot went out, and spake unto his sons in law, which married his daughters, and said, Up, get you out of this place; for the LORD will destroy this city. But he seemed as one that mocked unto his sons in law.”
Lot was mocked by his sons in law for they were homosexuals; which is why the daughters of Lot didn’t know their husbands. They were also destroyed in Sodom.

Genesis 19:15 “And when the morning arose, then the angels hastened Lot, saying, Arise, take thy wife, and thy two daughters, which are here; lest thou be consumed in the iniquity of the city”.

Only Lot, his wife, and daughters were saved because they were righteous.

2 Peter 2:6-8 “And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly; And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: (For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds; )”

The scripture is clear that Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed due to their wickedness and homosexuality was apart of that wickedness.
Not only were Sodom and Gomorrha destroyed

Jude verse 7-8 “Even Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire. Likewise also these filthy dreamers defile the flesh, despise dominion and speak evil of dignities”.

Tv1a: Your stance that Sodom and Gomorrha wasn't destroyed because of homosexuality is a non-biblical stance. Furthermore, it is a false doctrine that God is not pleased with. There are those in this world that support and condone homosexuality and proclaim to be churches. Some of them call themselves Liberated Christians.

[tv1a]

Correction noted on the ehud thing... Typing quick without proof reading does that to a person.

I have stated numerous times homsexuality is a sin. My point is there are many who think they know what a person should preach when put in a supposed situation like Cece Winans is put in. They get a cheap thrill at telling people they should preach against homosexuality while at the same time they can't control the urchins running wild in their church.

Originally Posted by NewWine

I would use a homosexual before I would use a gossiper anyday of the week. The church is generally homophobic.

We know that the first Christians were those in the book of Acts. And we know that those in the book of Acts that were called Christians were those that believed in baptism (in the Name of Jesus Christ) and receiving the Holy Ghost (evidence of speaking in other tongues). If you line up with the book of Acts than according to the word of God you are a Christian. Therefore, having said that I will say this.

No Christian can find sin acceptable, if they do then they should hit their knees and get their heart right with the Lord. Sin is sin, but not all sin is termed an "abomination". Homosexuality is a sin just as various other things are, however, Leviticus 18:22 (ref: Romans 1:24) discusses homosexuality and states "it is abomination". Thus, this ungodly spirit of homosexuality is not only a sin, but an abomination.

Your statement is spiritually troubling. Because NO CHRISTIAN that is FILLED WITH THE HOLY GHOST would ever make such a statement. For if one has been grafted into the body of Christ, they would never suggest or state in any way that they would desire to use demons. "The church is generally homophobic. They think homosexuality is an abomination...." I say unto you THE CHURCH IS RIGHT...HOMOSEXUALITY IS AN ABOMINATION according to the Word of God.

while on the pulpit sits a preacher of Ehud like porportions.
Judges 3:12-31
We find in verse 12 the Israelites have done evil in the sight of the Lord and the Lord has brought the Moabites against them, by strengthening Eglon the Moabite king. The children of Israel cried out unto the Lord and God sent them a Benjamite, Ehud. Ehud made a dagger which he concealed according to scripture and went before Eglon. While alone with Eglon, Ehud said unto Eglon verse 20 "I have a message from God unto thee" and he killed Eglon with the dagger. Further down in verse 27 Eglon blew the trumpet in the mountain of Ephraim and says unto the Israelites "Follow after me for the Lord hath delivered your enemies the Moabites into your hand". The Israelites go on to slay the Moabites. You are mistaken in you statement; perhaps you meant to say "Eglon"; because a preacher of "Ehud like proportions" is not a negative thing.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I would use a homosexual before I would use a gossiper anyday of the week. The church is generally homophobic.

The the very concept of someone being a "Christian homosexual" in the body of Christ is innately self-contradictory.

A man can no more be a Christian homosexual than he can be a Christian child molester.

[tv1a]

Can one be a christian gossiper? Can one be a christian liar, theif, etc.? Those are more prevelant in the church than christian homosexuals.

It easy to jump on the bandwagon of sins we don't have to deal with. Any destructive behavior needs to be dealt with. There are some sins which are acceptable to Christians.

We have people in the pews and in the pulpits who don't take care of their bodies, in direct violation of scripture. Those who gossip and those who can't say no when their bellies are full are going to meet the same fate as the homosexual.

Homosexuality is sin. So is gossip. So is causing division. So is undermining leadership (wpf). So is legalism.

Would Cece Winans have an obligation to preach against gossip if she sings at a church for tale bearers?

Would she have an obligation to preach against gluttony if she sings at a church full people who need a wide angle lens to get into the picture?

It is condesending and insulting to suggest someone preach against a certain sin, but not hold the to the same standards for other blatent sins.

Originally Posted by TRFrance

The the very concept of someone being a "Christian homosexual" in the body of Christ is innately self-contradictory.

A man can no more be a Christian homosexual than he can be a Christian child molester.

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Can one be a christian gossiper? Can one be a christian liar, theif, etc.? Those are more prevelant in the church than christian homosexuals.

It easy to jump on the bandwagon of sins we don't have to deal with. Any destructive behavior needs to be dealt with. There are some sins which are acceptable to Christians.

We have people in the pews and in the pulpits who don't take care of their bodies, in direct violation of scripture. Those who gossip and those who can't say no when their bellies are full are going to meet the same fate as the homosexual.

Homosexuality is sin. So is gossip. So is causing division. So is undermining leadership (wpf). So is legalism.

Would Cece Winans have an obligation to preach against gossip if she sings at a church for tale bearers?

Would she have an obligation to preach against gluttony if she sings at a church full people who need a wide angle lens to get into the picture?

It is condesending and insulting to suggest someone preach against a certain sin, but not hold the to the same standards for other blatent sins.

If you were asked to speak at this church would you speak out against their gay affirming lifestyle?

[tv1a]

I would preach what God wanted me to preach. Nothing more, nothing less.

I would use the same principle if I visited a church full of blue denim whales. If God wanted me to speak about unecessary obesity, he would tell me.

Homosexuality is easy to preach against. As rksmith how hard it is to preach against common issue the church faces, like gossip, and destructive behavior of saints. Although he likes to blame on the music, in reality, it's a leadership problem.

Anyone can preach against homosexuality. Homos in the church are far fewer in number than the backbiters, gossipers, and liars in the church. Let's deal with the issues facing the church before we deal with no more than 2% of the US population.

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

If you were asked to speak at this church would you speak out against their gay affirming lifestyle?

[ReformedDave]

Originally Posted by tv1a

I would preach what God wanted me to preach. Nothing more, nothing less.

I would use the same principle if I visited a church full of blue denim whales. If God wanted me to speak about unecessary obesity, he would tell me.

Homosexuality is easy to preach against. As rksmith how hard it is to preach against common issue the church faces, like gossip, and destructive behavior of saints. Although he likes to blame on the music, in reality, it's a leadership problem.

Anyone can preach against homosexuality. Homos in the church are far fewer in number than the backbiters, gossipers, and liars in the church. Let's deal with the issues facing the church before we deal with no more than 2% of the US population.

Again you refuse to answer direct questions directly. If this is a gay affirming church would you preach against homosexuality? You are trying to side step.

My pastor peaches about whatever is in the Scripture including gossip and sodomy.

God 'tells' you what to preach about? How do you know it's God?

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by tv1a

Can one be a christian gossiper? Can one be a christian liar, theif, etc.? Those are more prevelant in the church than christian homosexuals.

It easy to jump on the bandwagon of sins we don't have to deal with. Any destructive behavior needs to be dealt with. There are some sins which are acceptable to Christians.

We have people in the pews and in the pulpits who don't take care of their bodies, in direct violation of scripture. Those who gossip and those who can't say no when their bellies are full are going to meet the same fate as the homosexual.

Homosexuality is sin. So is gossip. So is causing division. So is undermining leadership (wpf). So is legalism.

Would Cece Winans have an obligation to preach against gossip if she sings at a church for tale bearers?

Would she have an obligation to preach against gluttony if she sings at a church full people who need a wide angle lens to get into the picture?

It is condesending and insulting to suggest someone preach against a certain sin, but not hold the to the same standards for other blatant sins.

Good grief.
Your line of reasoning there does not make a whole lot of sense.

Yes, gluttony is sin. Yes, gossiping is sin, etc. But...

There are no churches that have been founded for the purpose of promoting gluttony, or gossiping, or lying, or thievery, etc. But "gay-accepting" churches have been founded to promote acceptance of homosexuality. These churches by their very existence, are in denial of, and rebellion against, the word of God!

Why is it so hard for you to see the very clear distinction there?

---

If professing Christians really can't see how "gay churches" are related to the larger "gay movement" affecting our society, and how "gay churches" are being used by the devil to undermine God's design of family and sexuality, then in my mind, these believers have serious issues concerning spiritual perception, discernment, and judgment. No wonder so many churches are powerless today.