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Old 05-29-2008, 10:16 PM
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Ron Ron is offline
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Re: Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx View Post
Please understand this is very personal for a lot of people in Texas. Some have children there do y'all not understand this? If it were your child there would you want to just get them sent back where a possibility of maybe one day seeing, touching, or even being reunited with will be gone if they are sent back? Not all of those children have parents there. But hey what do I know I am not a lawyer or a judge.
I understand Sister & if there is anything "proof" of wrongdoing, then arrest & separate those who are at risk--immediately.

If there are no facts, which a judge has just ruled in thier favour that no threat existed.

I only expressed concern at the big picture & the ramifications for people of faith in the future.

I do agree, the safety of the "Children" is first & paramount.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:17 PM
Rico Rico is offline
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Re: Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx View Post
Please understand this is very personal for a lot of people in Texas. Some have children there do y'all not understand this? If it were your child there would you want to just get them sent back where a possibility of maybe one day seeing, touching, or even being reunited with will be gone if they are sent back? Not all of those children have parents there. But hey what do I know I am not a lawyer or a judge.
Sister, what the State of Texas did was wrong, plain and simple. I understand your concern for children being abused. If any proof of abuse comes to light, I am sure Texas CPS will do the right thing. They had no business taking everyone into custody like they did. The courts have determined they acted inappropriately and did not meet the legal standard required for the action they took. We are a nation that is governed by laws. If the State were allowed to violate the law any time they wanted to none of our liberties would be safe.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:08 PM
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Ron Ron is offline
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Re: Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx View Post
You have got to be kidding, the police bust a drug dealer, why would they do that? They would just be wasting time and resources since they could be off arresting burglars and robbers trying to get money to buy drugs with. It's a never ending cycle Ron and it happens every day. Our system has really become laughable. Even CPS and law enforcement in this case messed up, and they are suppose to be trained to do this. And I really don't understand Newman's point about unwed mother's in Texas. But somehow that is probably the state of Texas' fault too.
It was a "Hypothetical" situation.
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:04 PM
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Cindy Cindy is offline
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Re: Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

My apologies for wrong information. In Texas Judges are elected not appointed, except at the Federal level. Which means I probably voted for some of these people.
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If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
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He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God? Micah 6:8 KJV

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 1 John 3:2 KJV
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Old 05-29-2008, 10:06 PM
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James Griffin James Griffin is offline
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Re: Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cneasttx View Post
My apologies for wrong information. In Texas Judges are elected not appointed, except at the Federal level. Which means I probably voted for some of these people.
Thanks for the correction Cindy.

BTW thank you also for the sentiments you have expressed on this thread.

They give it some much needed balance.
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  #6  
Old 05-30-2008, 01:36 AM
Newman Newman is offline
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Re: Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

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Originally Posted by James Griffin View Post
Thanks for the correction Cindy.

BTW thank you also for the sentiments you have expressed on this thread.

They give it some much needed balance.
Ha! Spoken by a juvenile prosecutor!
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  #7  
Old 05-30-2008, 01:44 AM
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James Griffin James Griffin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newman View Post
Ha! Spoken by a juvenile prosecutor!
Former juvenile prosecutor, felony prosecutor AND defense attorney, having served both sides of capital murders, prosecuted AND defended thousands of criminal cases including child abuse, and molestation.

Which gives me a pretty balanced and firsthand view of issues concerning conflicts of state's interest vs individual rights.
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  #8  
Old 05-30-2008, 09:14 AM
Nina Nina is offline
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Re: Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

''As to this endangered population, I do not agree with the Court that the trial court abused its discretion in allowing the department to retain temporary conservatorship until such time as a permanency plan designed to ensure each girl's physical health and safety could be approved. On this record, however, I agree that there was no evidence of imminent 'danger to the physical health or safety' of boys and pre-pubescent girls to justify their removal from the YFZ Ranch, and to this extent I join the Court's opinion.''
Texas Supreme Court, concurring in part and dissenting in part by justices Harriet O'Neill; Phil Johnson; Don R. Willett.
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  #9  
Old 05-30-2008, 09:16 AM
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Steve Epley Steve Epley is offline
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Re: Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

I prophecy lawsuits is on the way!

What a fiasco!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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  #10  
Old 05-30-2008, 12:38 PM
Newman Newman is offline
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Re: Whoa! Polygamist solution is frightening...

Correction for Nina- I just came across this account in the Dallas News...

Also Thursday, in Kingman, Ariz., police Sgt. Rusty Cooper confirmed that officers there helped Texas authorities serve a search warrant on Mr. Jeffs, who was convicted in Utah for pressing a minor girl into a "spiritual marriage" and is jailed on similar charges in Arizona.

In the warrant, authorities allege the sect's leader, Mr. Jeffs, has sexually assaulted at least one minor girl at the Texas ranch. They say they have the records and photographs to prove Mr. Jeffs married a 14-year-old girl in 2004 and fathered her child the next year.

The DNA samples will help determine "whether Warren Jeffs is the parent of any children born to underage mothers, and thereby establish whether Warren Jeffs sexually assaulted those children by virtue of their age at the time the child was conceived," the warrant states.

The warrant also alleges Mr. Jeffs married a 12-year-old girl at the ranch in 2006, and that photos show them embraced in a kiss. Texas CPS attorneys introduced into evidence those photographs at a sect infant's custody hearing last week.

According to the warrant, other records obtained during Texas' April raid of the compound indicate Mr. Jeffs may have married two others girls at the ranch, both under the age of 15.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

About the Article Above
I was unaware of this allegation about a 14 year old marriage although I believe based on old information known and that she was 16 when she both conceived and gave birth rather than 15 as one might think based on the article.

This info came indirectly through a blogger who knew the young woman's birthdate and did the math.

EDITED after reading warrant/ The 14 year old referred to in the warrant was married in Utah according to their info. I don't know if she was at the ranch or not although the warrant said dates given were based on Bishops records from ranch.

According to FLDS tradition just because one is married, does not mean the marriage is consumated at that time. So all one can know for sure unless the female says different is that sex occurred at conception and not necesarily a day before. The warrant does not say this and suggests otherwise.

Btw- the twelve year old girl listed in the warrant had a medical exam and CPS did not present her as a child who had been molested.

CPS Smoke and Mirrors
CPS has played fast and loose with EVERY allegation made. It is very troubling to me that they used photos in court that they would not say where they came from. (It seems they would have shouted from the hilltops had the pictures been obtained at the ranch).

They also speak of photos in the warrant but once again do not specifically identify where they came from although the Bishops records with dates are specifically said to have been at ranch.

Inflamatory and prejudicial pictures were used in court alledgedly to get reaction from mother who wanted her children back...not for the truth of what they asserted and therefore were not authenticated (based on what I have been able to piece together).

One of the concerns is that the pictures could have been altered and arguably another hoax that the "gullible" CPS will later claim they did not realize when they acted upon them. We have heard that song and dance before...
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