Sabbath: In A Ditch Regarding the Seventh Day

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Encryptus

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...hlight=noahide

Read above thread. The answer according to the Jew is no.

The ten commandments were not intended for the gentile.

A righteous gentile need only keep the seven.

Praise the Lord, welcome to the discussion. Again, I’m going to go to bat for Sabbath keeping with some strong statements. This is in the hopes that some of you can address my concerns. God bless you.

Here’s what Paul wrote to Timothy:

I Timothy 1:8-11 But we know that the law is good, if a man use it lawfully; Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

Paul said that the law (moral Law) was good if used lawfully…Paul didn’t omit anything from the Law. The Noahide tradition is of Jewish origin, the Jews do not define what Gentiles are bound to obey…God does. And God doesn’t change. The Moral Law of the Ten Commandments is eternal Jesus himself said,

Matt 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least Commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The Law of God (the Ten Commandments) is eternal, majestic, and holy.

Please note…God established the Sabbath BEFORE there was a Jew…therefore the Sabbath isn’t “Jewish”…it’s eternal and grounded in the very pattern of the Creation. The Law only set stipulations by which the Jew was to observe it…the Law didn’t establish the Sabbath.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Please note…God established the Sabbath BEFORE there was a Jew…therefore the Sabbath isn’t “Jewish”…it’s eternal and grounded in the very pattern of the Creation. The Law only set stipulations by which the Jew was to observe it…the Law didn’t establish the Sabbath.

Antipas...

The Sabbath was never given to anyone before Exodus 16, after God had brought the nation of Israel out of Egypt.

And he said unto them, This is that which the LORD hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the LORD: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning.
(Ex 16:23)

....so how do you conclude that "God established the Sabbath before there was a Jew"?

Please explain that to us.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Antipas

That’s an argument from silence so it really doesn’t hold much weight. We don’t read of him specifically not observing the Sabbath either.

That is not an argument from silence. Look, if the bible never ever from Genesis to Revelation mentions a rest day and you come along and say "Well the bible never mentions not doing it, so we SHOULD do it" then that would be an argument from silence.

It's an important argument. Why SHOULD we keep the sabbath if the bible does not say we have to keep the sabbath? That is not an argument from silence. It's pointing out that we have a NEW COVENANT and in the NC we are not told we have to keep a sabbath day rest.

What about the references regarding Paul speaking to the Gentiles on the Sabbath?

It was not just gentiles but Jews. The Gentiles in this case below were converts to Judaism. The Jews still kept the sabbath day.

Act 13:42 As they went out, the people begged that these things might be told them the next Sabbath.
Act 13:43 And after the meeting of the synagogue broke up, many Jews and devout converts to Judaism followed Paul and Barnabas, who, as they spoke with them, urged them to continue in the grace of God.

What did Paul do on the first day of the week though? He gathered with the church
Act 20:7 On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.

1Co 16:2 On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

One reason for gathering as a church on the first day (the Lord's day, the day of His resurrection) was so on the Sabbath they can go to the Jews and evangelize

Again, that’s an argument from silence.

Prove it is. Just saying it is so does not make it so. Pointing out that the NT does not command us to keep the Sabbath is not an argument from silence. A command is.....a COMMAND. And there IS NO COMMAND. That is the whole point. In the New Covenant there IS NO COMMAND to do this or that. That is a valid point. You are arguing we have a commandment to keep....but that commandment is for an Old Covenant.

Sabbath keepers don’t believe that one serves God only one day a week. They believe in keeping the Ten Commandments, which leads them to observe the seventh day as commanded. Do you believe in keeping the Ten Commandments Bro. Blume?

I believe in the commandment of Love. We are under LOVE and under LOVE we are expressly taught what we are to do or not do. It's in the New Testament.

The Sabbath originated with creation and was only institutionalized under the Law. The Law required many legalistic requirements of the Sabbath, but these were to ensure that the Sabbath was kept; these laws didn’t establish the Sabbath.

Are we to keep the Ten Commandments? Yes or No?

No. We are to keep the New Law which is given under a New Covenant. In that New Covenant you can find what a sin is...the works of the flesh. Not once are we told that includes not keeping sabbath days

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

In this case, silence says volumes. We need direct teachings before we are to engage in anything. Unless we are told to keep the sabbath, then why keep it?

Are the Ten Commandments...commandments?

The argument from silence doesn't speak volumes. For the writers of Scripture often take for granted regular practices or experiences. For example nowhere does the Scripture state that the Philippian Jailor spoke in tongues or was baptized in the Holy Ghost. Why didn't the writer write about it? Because in Luke's mind it was a given, a no brainer, assumed that the reader wouldn't know any other process.

If the bible was to lay out everything NOT TO DO, rather than ONLY relate WHAT TO DO, then the world could not contain the books that would have to be written. Therefore, common sense leaves us to conclude that we do not keep anything that the New Testament does not directly tell us to keep.

Are you saying that the Ten Commandments are not binding?

Catholics told me that babies were not said to not be baptized, so why preach against it?

That doesn't compare. We see repeated references to the Sabbath being kept and even repeated commandments to keep it. It appears that the Church may have continued keeping the Sabbath seeing the references in Acts. However, the authors would have been taking it for granted not knowing that hundreds of years later the days would be shifted. For example in the Revelation John writes that he was in the Spirit on, "the Lord's day". We often assume that was Sunday...but the only "Lord's day" John would have known would have been the Sabbath day...for that is the only day in Scripture refered to as being such. As for infant baptism...we see it NOWHERE. So the two really don't compare.

The context says they saw Paul do so to the Jews on the sabbath and simply asked him to do the same. It certainly does not show Paul kept sabbath.

Why didn't any Jew ever condemn Paul or any Christian for not keeping the Sabbath?

Not really. It shows nothing about teaching sabbath was ever mentioned in the New Testament.

Again the writers may not have needed to address a universal understanding.

I believe I keep all the commandments. And sabbath day was a shadow of actual sabbath rest which the New Testament mentions by way of the eternal rest, in Heb 4. SO I keep the body of Christ and not the Old Testament shadow of a day.

Nowhere does Scripture call the weekly Sabbath (the seventh day Sabbath) a shadow. The sabbaths refered to as being shadows are the high holy days of the Jewish Calander...they are not part of the Ten Commandments.

Nothing was said about man keeping any sabbath before law. We only read God rested the seventh day, with no requirements for man to do the same until Law came.

God established the Sabbath at Creation and having created man on the sixth day, kept man at rest in the garden on the Seventh Day.

Sure. But the 4th, between the first three that deal with God, and the remaining 6 that deal with man, the sabbath is unique. It alone of the commandments was a shadow of the body of Christ. I have the body so I keep the fourth, too.

The Sabbath deals with God...God is commanding a time set apart for him, so it has to do with our dealing with God. Would one "spiritualize" the commandment against adultery?

[Praxeas]

BTW circumcision was established before the law too...how many sabbath keepers want to identify with the judaizers in demanding you have to be circumcised too?

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Amen. People in the northern polar region would have to keep one day holy for what we would see as several weeks, since it is seventh sundown to sundown.

Jews see no issue with keeping the Sabbath in exotic environments. I think that's grasping for dismal.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Antipas

The argument from silence doesn't speak volumes.

it is NOT an argument from silence.

The Sabbath was a covenant sign for Israel under the Old Covenant

Exo 31:13 "You are to speak to the people of Israel and say, 'Above all you shall keep my Sabbaths, for this is a sign between me and you throughout your generations, that you may know that I, the LORD, sanctify you.
Exo 31:14 You shall keep the Sabbath, because it is holy for you. Everyone who profanes it shall be put to death. Whoever does any work on it, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
Exo 31:15 Six days shall work be done, but the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, holy to the LORD. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death.
Exo 31:16 Therefore the people of Israel shall keep the Sabbath, observing the Sabbath throughout their generations, as a covenant forever.
Exo 31:17 It is a sign forever between me and the people of Israel that in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested and was refreshed.'"
Exo 31:18 And he gave to Moses, when he had finished speaking with him on Mount Sinai, the two tablets of the testimony, tablets of stone, written with the finger of God.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Baron1710

Colossians 2:15-17

15And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

17Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The "sabbaths" refered to are not "the Sabbath" of the Commandments. The sabbaths refered to are the days of convalescense established in the Jewish feast days. Paul isn't nullifying the Ten Commandments.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

BTW circumcision was established before the law too...how many sabbath keepers want to identify with the judaizers in demanding you have to be circumcised too?

Paul specifically equates baptism with circumscision...so yes.

[TRFrance]

Antipas, feel free to respond to the question I asked you (in post #12),

.... or to the scripture references I gave you in my post before that (post #6).