Baptism, DOES IT REALLY WASH AWAY SIN??

[SDG]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

Daniel,


You've avoided my question thus far. You said on a previous post "just believing brings salvation."

Can I enter heaven or be saved without the Holy Ghost infilling?

Sir, in reference to you pneumatological question ....

I believe you are aware that most 1 steppers believe we can only be regenerated by God's Spirit. You have confuse the empowerment and subsequent fillings of God's Spirit w/ a one time filling. That which is dead must be quickened to life in order to show fruit which meet repentance.

I will kindly request you open a thread ... on this matter directing it to the whole community ... although it too has been beaten to death.

This thread is about washing of sins.

[1Corinth2v4]

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

Sir,

I believe you are aware that most 1 steppers believe we can only be regenerated by God's Spirit. You have confuse the empowerment and subsequent fillings of God's Spirit w/ a one time filling. That which is dead must be quickened to life in order to show fruit which meet repentance.

I will kindly request you open a thread ... on this matter directing it to the whole community ... although it too has been beaten to death.

This thread is about washing of sins.

I'd be very careful if I was you.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by 1Corinth2v4

I'd be very careful if I was you.

Okay ... carefully start your thread ... and the community will carefully answer ... including yours truly.

[SDG]

Another plausible interpretation of Acts 22:19

Does Acts 22:16 teach that baptism is necessary for salvation?"

Answer: As with any single verse or passage, we discern what it teaches by first filtering it through what we know the Bible teaches on the subject at hand. In the case of baptism and salvation, the Bible is clear that salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, not by works of any kind, including baptism (Ephesians 2:8-9). So, any interpretation which comes to the conclusion that baptism, or any other act, is necessary for salvation, is a faulty interpretation. For more information, please visit our webpage on "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Acts 22:16, "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on his name." The first question that must be answered is "when was Paul saved?" 1. Paul tells that he did not receive or hear the Gospel from Ananias, but rather he heard it directly from Christ. Galatians 1:11-12 says, "For I would have you know, brethren, that the gospel which was preached by me is not according to man. For I neither received it from man, nor was I taught it, but I received it through a revelation of Jesus Christ." So, Paul heard and believed in Christ on the road to Damascus. Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17).

2. It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he also received the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--this was before he was baptized (Acts 9:18). Acts presents a transition period where God's focus turns from Israel to the Church. The events recorded in Acts are not always normative. With regard to receiving the Holy Spirit, the norm is that a person receives and is permanently indwelt by the Holy Spirit at the moment of salvation.

3. The Greek aorist participle, epikalesamenos, translated "calling on His name" refers either to action that is simultaneous with or before that of the main verb, "be baptized." Here Paul’s calling on Christ’s name for salvation preceded his water baptism. The participle may be translated "having called on His name" which makes more sense, as it would clearly indicate the order of the events.

4. Concerning the words, "be baptized, and wash away your sins," because Paul was already cleansed spiritually at the time Christ appeared to him, these words must refer to the symbolism of baptism. Baptism is a picture of God’s inner work of washing away sin (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 Peter 3:21).

5. It is also interesting that when Paul recounted this event again later in Acts (Acts 26:12-18), he did not mention Ananias or what Ananias said to him at all. Verse 18 again would confirm the idea that Paul received Christ as Savior on the road to Damascus since here Christ is telling Paul he will be a messenger for Him concerning forgiveness of sins for Gentiles as they have faith in Him. It would seem unlikely that Christ would commission Paul if Paul had not yet believed in Him.

http://www.gotquestions.org/baptism-Acts-22-16.html

[Scott Hutchinson]

I believe that baptism is essential,I can't deny the word.However is there any virtue in H20 to literally send sin away ? Is grace imparted through water baptism,can mere water regenerate a person? Can a person receive remission or being forgiven of sins prior to baptism ? Do people who receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost prior to Jesus Name baptism receive forgiveness at repentance.
And yes I believe all who repent are commanded to be Spirit filled and to take on The name of The Lord in baptism .

[Scott Hutchinson]

Here is a simple question if someone repents does God forgive of their sins yes or no ?

[SDG]

Originally Posted by Scott Hutchinson

Here is a simple question if someone repents does God forgive of their sins yes or no ?

Fully and entirely ... he doesn't require an extra spin cycle.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I'm just trying to be honest with the word and not side with a group,because God's word is always true whereas a group can be in error.
If I'm rejected by men so be it.I'm more interested in God's favour.

[LUKE2447]

I go to lunch come back and BAM! Thread explodes! LOL!!

Daniel alicea if you do not believe that baptism is for the remission of sins please answer my question on the first page in my last two posts.

When is the blood applied. Where in the Bible does it say the blood is applied. Yes Remission or forgiveness is a result of the blood and those point to baptism IMO but at what point does the Word say the blood is applied.

[SDG]

Originally Posted by LUKE2447

I go to lunch come back and BAM! Thread explodes! LOL!!

Daniel alicea if you do not believe that baptism is for the remission of sins please answer my question on the first page in my last two posts.

When is the blood applied. Where in the Bible does it say the blood is applied. Yes Remission or forgiveness is a result of the blood and those point to baptism IMO but at what point does the Word say the blood is applied.

Great question ... most traditional Water and Spirit 3 stepper OPs can't make up their minds even on this important topic ... WHAT COULD BE MORE IMPORTANT THAN TO KNOW WHEN THE BLOOD IS APPLIED.


Bernie Gillespie has a comprehensive 4 page article examining the historical evolution of Pentecostals as it applies to their theology on when the blood is applied ... and also answers this question here ...

http://www.inchristalone.org/WhenBloodAppliedpt1.html


Here is a taste of the confusing answers you will get from some within our movement:

Thank God, there are still churches where the message of the Cross and the language of the blood of Jesus is esteemed and adored. These churches are to be commended and encouraged for their convictions. Yet, even among these churches, there are Christians who seem to lack Hoffman’s clarity. While they would fight for the use of the blood in their hymnals and preaching, they are not clear as to what it means. For example, I recently read a column in a magazine1 where ministers were interviewed as to the question: “When is the blood of Jesus applied?” I was amazed at the disparity and confusion in their answers.

Here are some of those statements:

The application of the blood is not a one-time event.

Without the blood of Jesus, none of the steps we take in salvation would be efficacious. Forgiveness comes at repentance through His blood; sins are washed away at baptism through his blood.

The blood is applied through the entire new birth process.

The blood is applied when you repent, but I don’t believe it’s fully applied until you’re baptized in Jesus’ name. The reason some people get the Holy Ghost before baptism is because God honors their reaching out to Him in the process of repentance; you might say they get it on credit.

. . . the purging of the conscience takes place at baptism by the blood. The reason some people receive the Holy Ghost before baptism is because Jesus said that the one requirement for being filled is to be hungry.

I believe Scripture backs up the fact that the blood of Jesus is applied at baptism. . . . His blood is shed “for remission of sins.[”] This would seem to link baptism and Jesus’ blood together in the work of remission of sins. . . . If remission comes by baptism, then blood and baptism seem to be connected in their work. . . . repentance symbolizes death. However, the Bible says that life, not death, is in the blood. Finally, the blood is not applied when we receive the Holy Ghost, because this is the Gift that comes as a result of the work of atonement having been done.

Without the shedding of blood is no remission of sin. And we know from Acts 2:38 that both repentance and baptism are connected with the work of remission. And I think the culminating experience of receiving the Holy Ghost is a continuation of that blood flowing.

Finally, the view expressed by the editors was given:

In addition to our traditional way of thinking of salvation as a three-step process, we can also think of it as having two key aspects: God’s provision and our appropriation. In Acts 2:38, “for the remission of sin” is not tied to just baptism, but also to “repent and be baptized.” Together, these constitute our appropriation of God’s grace in our lives. Neither of those steps by itself completes the work of remission of sins. Only when a person first repents (turns away from sin) and then seals that commitment through baptism are sins remitted through Jesus’ shed blood.

These comments were taken from interviews of ministers of the United Pentecostal Church. These quotations reveal the UCPI’s general obscurity about the meaning and purpose of the blood of Jesus in the Atonement. They all hold to some notion that we must do certain things in order to appropriate the blood of Jesus. They are not in agreement as to how that is done. Some see the “blood applied” in repentance. Others believe it is only partially applied in repentance and is completed in baptism. Some say it is applied in both repentance and water baptism, but not as part of Spirit reception. Yet others say that the blood is applied in Spirit reception. Why such a discrepancy? This divergence of opinion obscures the vital purpose of the atoning blood of Jesus in God’s plan. It also reveals a lack of understanding of the meaning of the blood of Jesus in the Atonement.

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