More Employee Layoffs at PPH

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by Theresa

and over half of them are in my church.

the mismanagement of funds at WEC/PPH is rampant....they need assistance making these kinds of decisions. I dont think it's deliberate, or criminal it's IGNORANCE.

Was this something the voting members voted on? How can they just decide to cut 13 more jobs and outsource the responsibilities? Who is making these decisions and who do they answer to?

besides this is an ADDITIONAL 13 people....remember? They laid off others earlier this year. Which was a fiasco...

I see you are closer to this situation and that it is serious for so many families in one church!

It's affecting us all. My husband's hours have been cut by 20 and my daughter is pulling money from her husband's resources for merchandise to keep her store afloat.

It's not a good time for a lot of people. For sure.

Again, I apologize for making light of the situation. I wasn't paying close attention to the thread and should have before responding!

[GraceAmazing]

I'm not surprised about the cuts...I'm sure there will be more soon.

Sad day...

I am sorry for the 13 people who are losing or have lost their job. Business is slow around the world and while I understand it's a ministry, sometimes business decisions must be made within the ministry. It's sad that they've had to do this...that there isn't enough funds available...I too wonder where the accountability is, but I do agree with Tim...wonder who the pastor is and why they thought it was okay to cut 13 people from the same church....things that make you go ummmmm....

[Theresa]

Originally Posted by GraceAmazing

I'm not surprised about the cuts...I'm sure there will be more soon.

Sad day...

I am sorry for the 13 people who are losing or have lost their job. Business is slow around the world and while I understand it's a ministry, sometimes business decisions must be made within the ministry. It's sad that they've had to do this...that there isn't enough funds available...I too wonder where the accountability is, but I do agree with Tim...wonder who the pastor is and why they thought it was okay to cut 13 people from the same church....things that make you go ummmmm....

THINKING....a key element that is MISSING here....


and yes cuts need to be made but there are OTHER more profitiable cuts they could make...

[Silent Service]

My mentor/senior pastor and I were discussing this subject the other day in a way.

He has been licensed UPC for 40 years now and he was saying how the UPC was feeling the financial effects of many established churches either leaving or "checking out" and doing their own events with or without the districts and national. they have pushed out alot of up and coming churches into the independent ranks over the years due to the pastors getting sick of the infighting and politics.

even many of the churches that are "in" the UPC do their own thing once they pass 200-300 and start to hold events independent of the section or state apparatus.

Honestly they should hold GC every 2 years and allow for online & secure voting with a pre-recorded for and against vote on various resolutions and then allow for amendments to be made virtually via a teleconference either yearly or every 6 months on a Saturday afternoon. Why do ministers need to travel and be physically there when they can simply verify a vote yes or no via a secure website and some minimal levels of security like SSN or a ID #? I would assume that considering its minsiters voting the level of vote fraud would be very very low.

The needs for a publishing house in the days of Amazon.com are kinda silly. They can go 100% web-based and put UPC books into .pdf files with no need for inventory and near pure profit.

But that would be like cutting the foreign missions board members travel money to visit nice places around the world and tie up missionaries from their actual duties or getting rid of a Sunday School Departments who's black and white, hand drawn literature has been a punchline since the 80's (which is a whole different line of discussion)

The fact is that there is alot of fat to trim from WEC and alot of positions that could be chopped. The only departments that are really necessary from my point of view are church planting/foreign missions/publishing distribution channel (which may or not be PPH)/Outreach Training for Churches(which Matt Maddox and his bootcamp team have been pushing for in vain)/and the bible colleges.

pretty much everything else should be done on a volunteer basis or virtually online via web/teleconferences.

really what the UPC needs more than anything is to provide actual value to their churches in the form of training clinics with top notch experts on church growth, retention, discipleship, etc from within or without the UPC for districts and via webinar for their ministers. Heck.. even the board of realtors has ongoing training for members who pay their dues (which are alot less than what the UPC rakes in from a typical church)

the thing they should be scared of is the demographic gap thats forming among the ministers. they have a graying of the ministerial ranks and alot of younger men are going independent or will join the UPC later if ever. look at most of the officals of the UPC currently (from the top down) and you will only see a few "first generation" ministers that have any position of importance.. Paul Mooney and a few others are the exception. It has become a extended family enterprise with (as a earlier poster said) a real "caste" system connected by marriage, blood ties, and relationships.

[revrandy]

Originally Posted by Silent Service

My mentor/senior pastor and I were discussing this subject the other day in a way.

He has been licensed UPC for 40 years now and he was saying how the UPC was feeling the effects of many established churches either leaving or "checking out" and doing their own events with or without the districts and national.

Honestly they should hold GC every 2 years and allow for online & secure voting with a pre-recorded for and against vote on various resolutions and then allow for amendments to be made virtually via a teleconference. Why do ministers need to travel and be physically there when they can simply verify a vote yes or no via a secure website and some minimal levels of security like SSN or a ID #?

The needs for a publishing house in the days of Amazon.com are kinda silly. They can go 100% web-based and put UPC books into .pdf files with no need for inventory and near pure profit.

But that would be like cutting the foreign missions board members travel money to visit nice places around the world and tie up missionaries from their actual duties (which is a whole different line of discussion)

I think the focus of GC has somewhat waned anyways.... I think more Pastors go for the business of 1 or 2 days and the rest is to see friends...play some golf and compare churches...

[Theresa]

Originally Posted by Silent Service

My mentor/senior pastor and I were discussing this subject the other day in a way.

He has been licensed UPC for 40 years now and he was saying how the UPC was feeling the effects of many established churches either leaving or "checking out" and doing their own events with or without the districts and national.

Honestly they should hold GC every 2 years and allow for online & secure voting with a pre-recorded for and against vote on various resolutions and then allow for amendments to be made virtually via a teleconference either yearly or every 6 months on a Saturday afternoon. Why do ministers need to travel and be physically there when they can simply verify a vote yes or no via a secure website and some minimal levels of security like SSN or a ID #? I would assume that considering its minsiters voting the level of vote fraud would be very very low.

The needs for a publishing house in the days of Amazon.com are kinda silly. They can go 100% web-based and put UPC books into .pdf files with no need for inventory and near pure profit.

But that would be like cutting the foreign missions board members travel money to visit nice places around the world and tie up missionaries from their actual duties (which is a whole different line of discussion)

just more evidence that folks making the decisions have no business sense....or their focus is in the wrong place.

I think both

[edjen01]

The U.P.C.I....is a business. It is a club/organization of ministers. It is not a church or spiritual entity.

As for accountability....if the club does not like its leader or leaders....it can vote them out and vote in new leaders.

[TRFrance]

Wouldnt they save a lot of money if they held the General Conference in St. Louis instead of going city to city? I'm pretty sure it would.

Even if they want to go to different cities every other year, and hold it in St Louis every other year, they'd still end up saving a lot of money over the years to come. I wonder if they've given that idea much thought.

[Silent Service]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Wouldnt they save a lot of money if they held the General Conference in St. Louis instead of going city to city? I'm pretty sure it would.

Even if they want to go to different cities every other year, and hold it in St Louis every other year, they'd still end up saving a lot of money over the years to come. I wonder if they've given that idea much thought.

Its amazing that more actual ministers go to Because of the Times and it doesnt run near the amount of cost that GC does. The reason that ministers will go to BoTT is because it provides actual value and usually has some training or idea sharing aspect to it.

I wonder why the UPC doesnt put more emphasis into their District events and conferences with buildings that are already paid for.

[Theresa]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Wouldnt they save a lot of money if they held the General Conference in St. Louis instead of going city to city? I'm pretty sure it would.

Even if they want to go to different cities every other year, and hold it in St Louis every other year, they'd still end up saving a lot of money over the years to come. I wonder if they've given that idea much thought.

and from what I've heard time and time again they dont WANT to have it here all the time b/c GC is a time of VACATION and a chance to get away for the folks working at WEC and that HAVE to attend GC.

you'd think with finances getting like they are they would opt to do this for a couple of years just to perhaps have a GC that operated in the black.....


but no....


and trust me, I can see the desire to go to another location - to make conference accessible to folks who couldnt come to STL every year, and yes even the desire to use the time as a vacation...

but touch economic times call for us to be better stewards of what God has put in our care...and I dont see that happening