Loren Yadon's: Tragedies of War????

[Billy Boy]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Frankly, the very question is off-base, to begin with.
I said nothing about anyone not being in the body of Christ, did I?

I believe anyone who is baptized in Jesus' name and filled with the Holy Ghost is a member of the body of Christ. That is not the issue.

The issue is that (for reasons I'd rather not rehash all over again now) I do not believe that the plan of salvation as taught by PCI believers is biblically correct. So, to avoid future conflict and confusion, I would have voted against a merger of 2 organizations that have 2 differing views of what the plan of salvation is.

I get it, both salvational plans are close enough to get you saved, but different enough to cause division.

[MrMasterMind]

Originally Posted by Billy Boy

I get it, both salvational plans are close enough to get you saved, but different enough to cause division.

Actually I believe that if you read the post more carefully Mr France is stating the PCI understanding is NOT a valid plan of salvation, ergo anyone following, or preaching it, is not in fact saved.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

I'll put it this way:

If I was a member of whatever board was voting on the decision to merge, I would have voted no.

TR, a lot of time has gone by since the early days of the church. Much false doctrine has crept in and is now considered "orthodoxy". Although God does want us to worship him in Spirit and in Truth, don't you think that God considers these things and lovingly guides folks into the truth?

Nothing about the way the PAJC discommunicated their brethren through the implimentation of AS leads me to believe that they were following the mind of God. It (the AS) was and is a Phariseeical divisive platform served up with a bad attitude.

[TRFrance]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

TR, a lot of time has gone by since the early days of the church. Much false doctrine has crept in and is now considered "orthodoxy". Although God does want us to worship him in Spirit and in Truth, don't you think that God considers these things and lovingly guides folks into the truth?

Sorry, Miz.
I'm not sure how this relates to my statement that I wouldn't have approved of the original 1945 merger.

Originally Posted by mizpeh

Nothing about the way the PAJC discommunicated their brethren through the implimentation of AS leads me to believe that they were following the mind of God. It (the AS) was and is a Phariseeical divisive platform served up with a bad attitude.

Well, there you go! That actually lends support to my point on this.

Scripture says "how can two walk together except they be in agreement?"(Amos 3:3).
In terms of New Birth theology, the PCI/PAJC merger was an oil and water mix. It was bound to cause friction and division at some point, which is exactly what happened in the days of the 1992 Affirmation Statement.
If there had been no merger, there wouldnt have been all this drama in '92 in the first place.

[mizpeh]

Originally Posted by TRFrance

Sorry, Miz.
I'm not sure how this relates to my statement that I wouldn't have approved of the original 1945 merger.


Scripture says "how can two walk together except they be in agreement?"(Amos 3:3).
In terms of New Birth theology, the PCI/PAJC merger was an oil and water mix. It was bound to cause friction and division at some point, which is exactly what happened in the days of the 1992 Affirmation Statement.
If there had been no merger, there wouldnt have been all this drama in '92 in the first place.

I guess what I'm getting at and what has bothered my for a long time is that we, the body of Christ, is divided over doctrine, the basic doctrine of salvation. We don't have the advantage of the early church. They had one doctrine of salvation. They had apostles who definitively heard from God and they were used to lay the foundational doctrines of our faith. We don't have the apostle Paul or the apostle Peter here with us to set us all straight. And when I get frustrated about this I have to repent because I know we have the Spirit of God who Jesus promised would lead and guide us into all truth.

Anyways my point was that God knows where we are at in this season of the end of times and I think He takes all of the differences in doctrine into account. Even though we don't have exactly the same teaching the end is the same...folks are being added to the body of Christ. This is what I said, "TR, a lot of time has gone by since the early days of the church. Much false doctrine has crept in and is now considered "orthodoxy". Although God does want us to worship him in Spirit and in Truth, don't you think that God considers these things and lovingly guides folks into the truth?"

If this is the way God works, then if the men of the merger had kept to the original intent of unity, eventually God could have guided folks into all the truth, folks on both sides of the issue, one steppers and three steppers alike could have come together in agreement by the grace and through the revelation of God. He is big enough to do that if we will let Him.

But where was the love in the AS? The three steppers were contending for their POV to the disunity of the body. The whole thing reeks of the pit from whence it originated. (And let me qualify that statement. I don't believe Westburg and those who drew up the AS and those who voted for the AS are demonically possessed or oppressed but definitely ill guided by the wisdom that comes from below) With all the good intentions in the world, a desire for doctrinal purity, members of the body of Christ were made to disfellowship with other members of the body. Something isn't right here folks especially when these members agreed to "fellowship the difference" because the end result was the same. It really wasn't an oil and water mix.

TRF, this is what I was getting at, God's way of doing things. I don't believe the AS was God's way of doing things.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

...
But where was the love in the AS? The three steppers were contending for their POV to the disunity of the body. The whole thing reeks of the pit from whence it originated. (And let me qualify that statement. I don't believe Westburg and those who drew up the AS and those who voted for the AS are demonically possessed or oppressed but definitely ill guided by the wisdom that comes from below) With all the good intentions in the world, a desire for doctrinal purity, members of the body of Christ were made to disfellowship with other members of the body. Something isn't right here folks especially when these members agreed to "fellowship the difference" because the end result was the same. It really wasn't an oil and water mix.

TRF, this is what I was getting at, God's way of doing things. I don't believe the AS was God's way of doing things.

It is my personal opinion that God hates the AS and what it has done.
Now, I know that every one has his/her own opinion on everything and yours may be different than mine on the Affirmation Statement.

My opinion is based on Proverbs 6:16-19 which reads as follows:
16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

...
Nothing about the way the PAJC discommunicated their brethren through the implimentation of AS leads me to believe that they were following the mind of God. It (the AS) was and is a Phariseeical divisive platform served up with a bad attitude.

6 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Proverbs 6:16-19 from the King James Version

If you read what is spoken of there, the actions and attitude described, is that a pretty good description of the 1992 General Conference in Salt Lake City, Utah and the resulting Affirmation Statement?

[Theophil]

Originally Posted by mizpeh

...Nothing about the way the PAJC discommunicated their brethren through the implimentation of AS leads me to believe that they were following the mind of God. It (the AS) was and is a Phariseeical divisive platform served up with a bad attitude.

Originally Posted by Sam

6 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:
17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,
19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.
Proverbs 6:16-19 from the King James Version

If you read what is spoken of there, the actions and attitude described, is that a pretty good description of the 1992 General Conference in Salt Lake City, Utah and the resulting Affirmation Statement?

Yes, it certainly is. The AS was a product of small minded, insecure men. It is childishly immature and needs to be put out of it's misery.

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Theophil

Yes, it certainly is. The AS was a product of small minded, insecure men. It is childishly immature and needs to be put out of it's misery.

Amen