No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!

Which begs the question:
How can anyone's doctrine of grace precede the grace that saves?
AND YOU ARE STUDYING THAT?

Brother Villa

I've studied the doctrines of grace many years ago. I might revisit it. Here's my understanding...

The very same grace that draws a man, saves a man, and keeps a man. These are essentially works of the Spirit, through the unmerited favor of God.

Prevenient Grace (some believe it is selective, others believe it is universal, hence my post which was largely inspired by your earlier post):

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Saving Grace (only received by those who obey the Gospel):

Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Sanctifying Grace (only experienced through continual prayer and submission):

2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

[thephnxman]

His NAME is Jesus!

Originally Posted by Aquila

I've studied the doctrines of grace many years ago. I might revisit it. Here's my understanding...
The very same grace that draws a man, saves a man, and keeps a man. These are essentially works
of the Spirit,through the unmerited favor of God.
Prevenient Grace (some believe it is selective, others believe it is universal, hence my post which
was largely inspired by your earlier post):
John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at
the last day.
Saving Grace (only received by those who obey the Gospel):
Acts 2:38-39
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for
the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the
Lord our God shall call.
Sanctifying Grace (only experienced through continual prayer and submission):
2 Peter 3:18
But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory, both
now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

Grace is apportioned to believers as a whole, and to individuals.
To them who believe and obey, corporately: "...by grace are ye saved through
faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God...". Everyone of us must
all go through that same door. However, there are also phases in our lives, to
which the natural realm also attests.
1Jn 2:12-13: "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you
for his name's sake.
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.
I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one..."

And what is grace, but the promise given to us from the prophets and
now delivered unto us since the Day of Pentecost: "...ye SHALL receive
the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the PROMISE is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

Brother Villa

[Aquila]

Originally Posted by thephnxman

His NAME is Jesus!



Grace is apportioned to believers as a whole, and to individuals.
To them who believe and obey, corporately: "...by grace are ye saved through
faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God...". Everyone of us must
all go through that same door. However, there are also phases in our lives, to
which the natural realm also attests.
1Jn 2:12-13: "I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you
for his name's sake.
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning.
I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one..."

And what is grace, but the promise given to us from the prophets and
now delivered unto us since the Day of Pentecost: "...ye SHALL receive
the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the PROMISE is unto you, and to your children,
and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call."

Brother Villa

thephnxman,

Do you have a systematic approach to your theology you can share to help clarify what you're saying?

For example, Reformed believers embrace the Ordo Salutis, which is largely Monergistic and flies in the face of the more biblical notions of free will. Among the Armenians who embraced free will, the definition of the grace at work which is typically understood in Reformed circles as "Irresistible Grace" or "Effectual Calling" was reinterpreted to a more biblical idea. Prevenient Grace. Prevenient Grace comes in two parts... the inner drawing of the Spirit and the outer calling of the preached Gospel. When these are in alignment the sinner is drawn to Christ's reality and confronted with the choice to obey the Gospel or reject it. Essentially, Prevenient Grace is at work prior to salvation and the full reception of God's Saving Grace.

Prevenient grace refers to the grace of God in a person's life that precedes conversion (or salvation). The word "prevenient," considered an archaic term today, was common in the King James English and simply means to "go before" or "precede.".
Prevenient grace | Theopedia
https://www.theopedia.com/prevenient-grace

I was taught:

1. Election (God's choice of people to be saved in accordance to foreknowledge)

2. Propitiation (Christ's satisfying the Law and God's wrath against the sins of the Elect)

3. Atonement (Christ's work of covering the sins of the Elect)

4. The Gospel call (Receiving the message of the gospel through Prevenient Grace)

5. Conversion (faith, repentance, repentance, water baptism, Spirit baptism)

6. Justification (right legal standing)

7. Regeneration (being born again/one spirit with the Lord)

8. Adoption (membership in God's family)

9. Sanctification (growing in Christlikeness)

10. Perseverance (remaining under the blood as a Christian)

11. Death (going to be with the Lord)

12. Glorification (receiving a resurrection body in sinless perfection)

[1ofthechosen]

He is the Logos which the "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance" defines as "something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse) also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation."
That's says enough!!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCml...GfzdAfhWLzbz1A
This is a One God, Holy Ghost Filled, Tongue Talkin', Jesus Name channel where it's all in Him!
Apostolic Truth! His Truth Is Marching On!
SUBSCRIBE to my channel!!

[Amanah]

Originally Posted by 1ofthechosen

He is the Logos which the "Strong's Exhaustive Concordance" defines as "something said (including the thought); by implication a topic (subject of discourse) also reasoning (the mental faculty) or motive; by extension a computation."
That's says enough!!

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCml...GfzdAfhWLzbz1A
This is a One God, Holy Ghost Filled, Tongue Talkin', Jesus Name channel where it's all in Him!
Apostolic Truth! His Truth Is Marching On!
SUBSCRIBE to my channel!!

Hi and welcome to forum!!!