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03-28-2009, 11:07 PM
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Go Dodgers!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 45,794
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManOfWord
Hid DID pre-exist as the Son. As you have stated, it was in the mind/plan, which is what Logos is, of God. So the Son DID pre-exist Bethlehem, but not in the flesh...only in the plan of God.
God DID create everything through Jesus Christ. It was not that Jesus created, but that God created with a view toward/through Jesus since that was His ultimate plan.
Personally, I have not problem talking about the Son of God or that Jesus was God's son, since those ARE biblical terms. However, I am not ever remotely close to tritheism nor do I believe that there is fellowship in the Godhead. A lot of debate has been over the sonship. If folks would just start with the OT THEN go to the NT, instead of the other way around and would also stop looking at the Bible through "creedal" lenses, there would be a lot less tritheism lurking in Christianity!  |
The problem is is that "pre-exist" usually means to have actual existence as a person and not ideal existence in someone's mind to most....thus the Trinity and the Eternal Son. They believe He eternally existed as a Person called Son (not Sod)
__________________
Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:
- There is One God. This one God reveals Himself distinctly as Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
- The Son is God himself in a human form or "God manifested in the flesh" (1Tim 3:16)
- Every sinner must repent of their sins.
- That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
- That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
- The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.
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03-29-2009, 09:28 AM
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Crazy father of 4
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Now? Phoenix, AZ. Before? Newark, OH, Wyandotte, MI, Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,926
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by manofword
hid did pre-exist as the son. As you have stated, it was in the mind/plan, which is what logos is, of god. So the son did pre-exist bethlehem, but not in the flesh...only in the plan of god.
God did create everything through jesus christ. It was not that jesus created, but that god created with a view toward/through jesus since that was his ultimate plan.
Personally, i have not problem talking about the son of god or that jesus was god's son, since those are biblical terms. However, i am not ever remotely close to tritheism nor do i believe that there is fellowship in the godhead. A lot of debate has been over the sonship. If folks would just start with the ot then go to the nt, instead of the other way around and would also stop looking at the bible through "creedal" lenses, there would be a lot less tritheism lurking in christianity! :d
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homerun
__________________
Life is .............
I'll get back to you when I figure it out.
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03-29-2009, 02:38 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Falla39
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How Great Is Our GOD!
The splendor of a King,
Clothed in majesty
Let all the earth rejoice,
All the earth rejoice
He wraps himself in light,
And darkness tries to hide
And trembles at his voice,
And trembles at his voice
How great is our God,
sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God
Age to age he stands
And time is in His Hands
Beginning and the End,
Beginning and the End
The Godhead, Three in one
Father, Spirit, Son
The Lion and the Lamb,
The Lion and the Lamb
How great is our God,
sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God
Name above all names
You are Worthy of all praise
and My heart will sing how great
Is our God
How great is our God,
Sing with me
How great is our God,
and all will see
How great, How great
Is our God
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A good song.
The only people I've heard sing that song considered themselves trinitarian.
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03-29-2009, 03:07 PM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
A good song.
The only people I've heard sing that song considered themselves trinitarian.
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Interesting you would say that! I am still at church ... they have been singing that song for about 20 min now! (extended altar service)
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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03-29-2009, 03:13 PM
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Jesus' Name Pentecostal
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: near Cincinnati, Ohio
Posts: 17,805
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
Interesting you would say that! I am still at church ... they have been singing that song for about 20 min now! (extended altar service)
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I've only heard that song sung at one church
and the folks at that church consider themselves trinitarian.
Last edited by Sam; 03-29-2009 at 03:13 PM.
Reason: correct typo
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03-29-2009, 03:17 PM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1,178
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
I've only heard that song sung at one church
and the folks at that church consider themselves trinitarian.
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I always appreciate your insights, Sam. You're a good guy.
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03-29-2009, 11:52 PM
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Wouldn't Take Nothin' For My Journey Now!
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,358
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam
A good song.
The only people I've heard sing that song considered themselves trinitarian.
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Our praise and worship team sing it often. I promise you, we are not
trinitarian but we do love those folks. The church is full of ex-trinitarian
people. They make excellent oneness Pentecostals when the Lord opens
their understanding that they might understand the scriptures.
Blessings,
Falla39
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03-28-2009, 11:46 PM
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Administrator
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 16,848
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
I think it is clear that Stephen Eureka is an apostate and should be burned at the stake. Er.....I mean excommunicated......er......I mean his church should excommunicate him.
Next he will be trying to say that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God the Father!
__________________
"I think some people love spiritual bondage just the way some people love physical bondage. It makes them feel secure. In the end though it is not healthy for the one who is lost over it or the one who is lives under the oppression even if by their own choice"
Titus2woman on AFF
"We did not wear uniforms. The lady workers dressed in the current fashions of the day, ...silks...satins...jewels or whatever they happened to possess. They were very smartly turned out, so that they made an impressive appearance on the streets where a large part of our work was conducted in the early years.
"It was not until long after, when former Holiness preachers had become part of us, that strict plainness of dress began to be taught.
"Although Entire Sanctification was preached at the beginning of the Movement, it was from a Wesleyan viewpoint, and had in it very little of the later Holiness Movement characteristics. Nothing was ever said about apparel, for everyone was so taken up with the Lord that mode of dress seemingly never occurred to any of us."
Quote from Ethel Goss (widow of 1st UPC Gen Supt. Howard Goss) book "The Winds of God"
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03-29-2009, 08:09 AM
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Supercalifragilisticexpiali...
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 19,197
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by CC1
I think it is clear that Stephen Eureka is an apostate and should be burned at the stake. Er.....I mean excommunicated......er......I mean his church should excommunicate him.
Next he will be trying to say that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of God the Father!
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LOL!
While I do not affirm multiple beings in the Godhead, it is of great interest that it can be said, the Father (being God), and the Son (also being God), communicated one to the other.
Has all the communication ceased, now that Jesus is glorified? Does the Son of God even now know the hour of His return?
__________________
"It is inhumane, in my opinion, to force people who have a genuine medical need for coffee to wait in line behind people who apparently view it as some kind of recreational activity." Dave Barry 2005
I am a firm believer in the Old Paths
Articles on such subjects as "The New Birth," will be accepted, whether they teach that the new birth takes place before baptism in water and Spirit, or that the new birth consists of baptism of water and Spirit. - THE PENTECOSTAL HERALD Dec. 1945
"It is doubtful if any Trinitarian Pentecostals have ever professed to believe in three gods, and Oneness Pentecostals should not claim that they do." - Daniel Segraves
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04-09-2009, 08:43 AM
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Registered Member
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,730
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Re: No Pre-existing Son... Before Christ's Birth?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover
LOL!
While I do not affirm multiple beings in the Godhead, it is of great interest that it can be said, the Father (being God), and the Son (also being God), communicated one to the other.
Has all the communication ceased, now that Jesus is glorified? Does the Son of God even now know the hour of His return?
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God had a Son! He is the very expression of the divine made flesh. This man was a actual man who worships, feels, thinks and prays yet his very being and existance is tied to the Almighty in which he has relationship. Does that make two Gods? No as anything that is divine is not his but given him by the Father. Is Jesus God? Yes by his very nature of existance. Is he man. Yes, by his very nature of his experience and existance as well... God manifested in flesh! He is the perfection of man and God coexisting perfectly in that which we call the Messiah.
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