First off, a lot of my comments are referring to earlier posts. But we can discuss them if you wish and will stay with what the actual text declares, something most OP will not do.
Jesus, as the Son, IS the Creator regardless of whether we believe Oneness or Trinity... Paul in Colossians is excruciatingly plain about this.
Col 1:16-17 For by him (the Son vs 13-15) were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Joh 1:3....All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
Jesus, the "Son of" God created the Heavens and the Earth, and ALL that exists in them.
It was Jesus who created Lucifer.
Reality altering concept for most, I know... but either it is true, or
Joh 1:3 and
Col 1:16 are in error. This means that the God of creation in
Genesis 1:1 IS Jesus. This means that Jesus, the Son of God, was already in existence before
Genesis 1:1, LONG before Mary was born, and LONG before His fleshly body came into existence.
Furthermore, four times in
Revelation 1:8 & 11; 21:6; 22:13 Jesus declares "I am Alpha and Omega, the first and the last" or "Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end"... and three times in
Isaiah 41:4; 44:6;..48:12..the Old Testament LORD of Hosts declared "I am the first, and I am the last." There cannot be TWO distinct separate persons who can BOTH claim this... thus it must be the same individual... or someone is lying.
THUS, Jesus of the New Testament IS therefore the LORD of Hosts of the Old testament, the God of Isaiah's visions, the One who declared "beside me there is no God" verse 44:6.
But that is not ALL the Bible has to say on the subject... and if you knew ALL of the text on the subject you would see that while Jesus IS the God of the Old and New Testaments, He is not the Father, and there is One to whom He is subordinate.
Col 1:15....Who is the "image" of the invisible God... as you have proven in the Greek, this declares that Jesus was a replica, a COPY of the original... but there is a huge difference between the original and a reproduction or copy... even if the copy is "perfect" it is still just a copy.
1Co 15:28....And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
1Cor 15 declares that when ALL of this is finished, The Son who is is HEAVEN will subordinate Himself to the Father and that the Father is GREATER than the Son, having subordinated all things to the Son to begin with... the Father is the DOER and the Son is the receiver of the actions of the Father.
Col 1 agrees with this. Thus the Father and the Son are distinct individuals or Persons.
Rev 3 also declares this to be true but takes it to a whole new level.
Rev 3:12....Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple
of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him
the name of my God, and the name of the city
of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven
from my God: and I will write upon him
my new name.
Jesus Himself said that there is One whom He calls HIS "GOD"... and those who overcome will bear TWO names, the name of Jesus AND the name of His "God."
As for the thrones in Heaven, Jesus would disagree with you...
there are two, not one.
Rev 3:21....To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me
in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with
my Father in his throne.
Again, the Father and the Son are declared to be distinct persons, each possessing His own throne, and Jesus
IN HEAVEN speaks of the Father as both a distinct individual, and as His Superior.
Furthermore:
Col 1:15....Who is the image of the invisible God,
the firstborn of every creature:
Rev 3:14....And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness,
the beginning of the creation of God;
Col 1 declares that Jesus is the "first-born" of every "creature" including the Son with the "creatures", and in
Rev 3:14 Jesus openly declares that He Himself is a created being, "the beginning of the creation of God." Plainly this says that when God began to create, the Son, Jesus was the first thing that was "created."
Thus what is actually declared in the Bible is that God "The Father" created Jesus "The Son", and Jesus "The Son" created everything else.
When You apply Jesus' own definition in
John 17 to His statement in
John 10, you see that Jesus
NEVER considered that being "One" with the father meant that they were the same person.
Once you look at
ALL of Jesus comments on the subject of Oneness
at the same time, i.e. keeping them all
in their actual context, instead of picking and choosing one here and another there, it becomes painfully obvious that Jesus was NEVER claiming to BE the Father, EVER... ESPECIALLY when He said that He and the Father are "one" in
John 10.
If you continue reading the conversation in
John 10 to its conclusion, when the Jews
misunderstood Jesus to be claiming to be the Father, He actually corrected their
misunderstanding by PLAINLY explaining that he was NOT claiming to be the Father, but rather the Son of the Father, and referenced...
Psa 82:6....I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High.
...as the grounds for His claim to be the "Son of God," incidentally a claim that every one of them and we today can also make within the same context.
For those who are concerned after reading my comments...
Acts 2:38 ALL the way... but the Apostles never declared that to be saved one must repent, be baptized in the Name of Jesus, receive the Holy Ghost,
AND BELIEVE THAT JESUS IS THE FATHER AND THE HOLY GHOST.
Jesus' response to Nicodemus did not include a reference to this concept, and Jesus
NEVER said it anywhere else. The closest it comes is
John 8:24 IF you leave out the translator's "he"... but then once again, if you continue reading you see Jesus say it again in vs 28, and it is clear from the greater context that he was not claiming to be the "I AM" in either verse, as OP teachings incorrectly claim.
It just isn't in the Bible, and simply isn't found in ANY of the APOSTLE'S teachings. It is the doctrine of man, and an addition to the Gospel which was delivered.
In fact, just the opposite it true.
According to
Act 8:37-38....And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that
Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
It
is Biblical to say that it is enough for one to believe that Jesus is merely the
Son of God for them to be given FULL membership into the Body of Christ through baptism, and thus FULL fellowship in the church.
If they are 2:38, they are saved. I have presented chapter and verse for it. In that the Holy Ghost PERSONALLY SENT Philip to do this proves the validity of it... If Philip could not handle it correctly, I believe that the Holy ghost would not have sent him, therefore this bears the stamp of approval of the Holy Ghost Himself, that belief that Jesus is "the SON of God" is enough.
We need to stop fighting over nonessentials, and focus upon what IS required for salvation.
Oneness or Trinity is not the point. Preaching the Gospel and obeying the Great Commission IS the point... and Godhead is not a part of that message or Commission.
Hybrid Mode
