Can Women Pastor ?

[Jeffrey]

Originally Posted by rdp

Ughhhh, say what??? I gave lexical definitions, what are talking about? Regarding sermons, that's simply how many refer to the common ecclesiological practice. Besides, do you believe in the rapture? Yes? Then that's also an "unbiblical word". Be consistent.

Out of pocket for about a week, but plan to try & spend more time on here if possible.

Look if you want to be cocky and dismissive about it, your speech and debate vocabulary and throw-ins of the word "context" do nothing to show us how smart you are.

I was making a specific point about your hair splitting between preaching and sermonizing. Think it back over and maybe you'll catch that.

This Argumentum ad Populum rebuttal to everything is frankly old. My point was, and still is, if the majority of scholars that have examined these subjects, as well as the traditional and historical understanding conflict with your opinions, perhaps you should check your tone, and approach this with a little more humility than trying to come on here and shove your forceful opinion down every throat on AFF. I'm happy to interact with you despite a varying opinion like that. Cocky people just make me want to argue, and it detracts from real discussion.

Also, please elaborate further on your criticism of Norris' "sloppy scholarship." Be specific if you can. You like to type long responses, so you shouldn't mind that request

Why is Priscilla mentioned before Aquilla? What was their role? What about Nymphas?

My comments about 1 Cor 14 -- you dismiss it so quickly that it's hard to take you serious. Assertions? The evidence many scholars cite are not mere assertions. The topic of women being silent does not fit anywhere in the topic outline or scope of the Corinthian letter. I think it's a theory to consider. Even with it there, it must be reconciled with 1 Cor 11, where praying and prophesying are directed toward women. Nevertheless, what of Norris' suggestion that Text is dealing with husband and wives, as it says explicitly? Then there is the idea that Paul is citing a Corinthian question. Others suggest that the overall issue of disorderly prophesy and tongues is related to women that called out to their husbands in a disorderly way and took Paul's egalitarian "there is no male nor female" all the way until there was a violation of social order -- where there was no distinction of genders at their gatherings. But I'm anxious to hear a discussion on 1 Tim 2 further.

I try to reconcile that with those who helped lead the church in the NT that were, in fact, women.

If you wish to berate my intelligence, have at it. It only shows your own lacking. But if you wish to use your knowledge on this subject, and as you understand it, to interact on the points, then please do. But get off your dismissive 3-argument rebuttal. Because an argument is popular does not mean it's right, but it certainly lends much more credibility in the process of debate.

As far as your Greek pal, I won't research him. I don't care to. I just found it funny that you tried to use him as your trump card "expert," when in fact, there are hundreds of scholars that have written positions on this subject that would be in disagreement.

[Sister Alvear]

Glad God has the last say...

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

Glad God has the last say...

Yes, & He will judge by His written Word, as I understand it.

[Sister Alvear]

...and His written word commands us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature...sadly while we debate who is to preach the world rushes blindly to hell.

[Sister Alvear]

While the church leaders agree all must hear and obey to be saved, the clergy fuss about who tells the story. What difference does it make which gender pulls a burning person from the flame? Or what difference does it make that a man or woman, male or female, saves the drowning persons from a torrid river? Did the horrified soldiers care who answered the call that icy March afternoon in 1869 when Ida Lewis responded with haste to rescue the crying voices from the choppy waves at Lime Rock Lighthouse in Newport. One of the drowning men lost hope when he saw that it was a woman who came rowing out to save them. However, he was soon to change his mind after the job was successfully accomplished. She had fierce strength that wasn’t hers alone. Later, a newspaper recorded that she said that the Lord Almighty gave it to her when she needed it the most. (Women of the Lights, Candice Fleming, Albert Whitman & Co., Morton Grove, IL, 1996, 21.)

[Sister Alvear]

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
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Acts 1:8 but you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be My witnesses both in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and even to the remotest part of the earth."

[Sister Alvear]

Our Lord speaks without any limitation or restriction. The command is GO YE....this command is given to every believer...If we do not do this we are disobeying a commandment of our Lord...

[Sister Alvear]

. Romans 16:12 Salute Trephine and Tryphosa, who labor in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which labored much in the Lord. Trephine, and Tryphosa, women, and who labored much in the Lord. These are all women; yet the same apostle that wrote I Corinthians 14:34 said in I Corinthians 16:16, that ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboreth. (Be in subjection, RV) to everyone that helpeth with us and laboreth.

So it behoves us to rightly divide the scriptures...while you might not want a woman to be your pastor there are millions yea millions that women have ministered to over the years.... especially on the mission field.

[rdp]

Originally Posted by Sister Alvear

. Romans 16:12 Salute Trephine and Tryphosa, who labor in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which labored much in the Lord. Trephine, and Tryphosa, women, and who labored much in the Lord. These are all women; yet the same apostle that wrote I Corinthians 14:34 said in I Corinthians 16:16, that ye submit yourselves unto such, and to every one that helpeth with us, and laboreth. (Be in subjection, RV) to everyone that helpeth with us and laboreth.

"I urge you to be subject to such M-E-N and to every fellow worker and laborer." [I Cor. 16:16, RSV]. Looks like you left part of the verse out Sis. Alvear. The context of this particular passage was "MEN"...not women. My wife is a laborer in the Lord, but she doesn't get up & instruct men in the church. She would be going against clear Scripture if she did....& she won't do something in flagrant violation to the Scriptures like that. Are you proposing that everyone who "labors in the Lord" is now a "preacher" in the sense of the 5-fold ministry? Respectfully [& I'm sincerely mean that], this is grabbing at straws.

So it behoves us to rightly divide the scriptures...while you might not want a woman to be your pastor there are millions yea millions that women have ministered to over the years.... especially on the mission field.

And these appeals outside of the text of Scripture have nothing to do w/ what the Bible says. Besides, in missionary settings, they're ussually witnessing, which EVERYONE should do. But I Cor. 14 & I Tim. 2 are dealing w/ "in the church," being the body of already saved folks. You're meshing contexts.

Regarding the lady who rowed out in a storm to help someone, how in the world does this invalidate I Tim. 2 & I Cor. 14? What does this have to do w/ women preachers?????

[Jeffrey]

Bowas/RDP:

Do you guys believe women preachers are in sin or just not in the perfect order of what God had in mind for the church?

(I could say the same thing about single-pastor churches)