Read Segraves on "letting down hair"

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by Edward Anglin

I have been following this thread, and admit it amuses me.

Where has Bob been living?

He's like the guy whose wife has been cheating on him for years. His friends have told him over and over about her unfaithfulness, but he is so blinded by love that he just can't see the truth, and refuses to acknowledge that evidence of her adultery exists.

He refuses to believe them because he just loves her too much and still thinks of her purity on their wedding day. He's in love with a memory. That girl no longer exists.

Bob, welcome to the conversation.

This abominable doctrine has been preached for years. All of your AFF friends know this. Doctors Segraves and Bernard know this. You know this.

Stop defending it Bob and start demanding answers.

Somebody's been unfaithful.

Thanks Ed for this enlightening and impassioned appeal!

As I have observed, I hardly think this rises to the level of "abominable doctrine"... I would like to have a one on one with LS to really get to the nuts and bolts of what he believes, but in lieu of that all we have are excerpts and statements he has made. Bernard is not as much in disagreement over the act of laying on of hair as an act to focus faith as Seagraves is, so that in and of itself is not the issue.

There are two main issues supported by LS's statements 1.) the source of authority in the spirit realm by the act of uncut hair (as opposed to the general principles of obedience and submissin) and 2.) women have access to this authority that men do not have... If LS can reconcile these concerns by clarifications 1.) the source of authority in the spirit realm is not the act of uncut hair alone, but the general principles of submission and obedience and 2.) that men who are obedient and submitted have access to authority in the spirit realm as well as women, it would go a long way to clearing this up.

These two points of contention, and the "folk theology" misunderstanding that is opened up because of them, can be rectified by clarification and do not rise to the level of "abominable damnable doctrines" that some alarmists insists, IMHO. If, on the other hand, LS really believes in witchcraft and magical powers in the substance of uncut hair, I agree with your assessment. But from what I have gathered, the former is true, not the latter. This needs to be addressed by LS, leading scholars and authorities, local pastors, but men and women do not need to be drawn and quartered for it! JMHO...

[rgcraig]

Bob,

Here's you some more "proof"

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com...hlight=Bernard

You can't tell me anyone is misunderstanding what is being taught - - - they are understanding it clearly!

Originally Posted by ReformedDave

Last nite I attended a UPC service with a prominent minister was the speaker. I actually went because I wanted to hear him again as he's been a big part of my past life. It was my first time in a UPC church in a long time and I was actually kind of looking foward to enjoying it.

The minister proceeded to preach the WORST magic hair sermon I've ever heard. He attributed some of the most bizarre things to women who do not cut their hair. He stated that the entire country of Fiji quit cutting their hair due to his preaching this sermon there and this prevented a revolution. He also made some other equally absurd remarks.... He also spent a long time explaining how he understands the use of makeup and if women insist on using it they should use it properly....Then there was the altar call. He had women with uncut hair take it down and go down to the front and pray for people......

If I hadn't heard it I would have never believed it. I will never listen to this man again. Makes me so very sad to have taken the time to attend a pentecostal church. What is the worst part is that many sat there and believed him

I can't understand how the UPC puts up with this....or maybe I can.

Very sad.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

PO - is this the article you are referencing from DS?

http://holymagichair.com/wordpress/?p=25

It is his position paper that is referenced on the first page of this thread, I believe. I don't normally go to websites like the one linked above. It's just depressing to listen to so much negativity. Nothing against Dan the Man. It's just that I get enough of that reading here. LOL!

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

It is his position paper that is referenced on the first page of this thread, I believe. I don't normally go to websites like the one linked above. It's just depressing to listen to so much negativity. Nothing against Dan the Man. It's just that I get enough of that reading here. LOL!

The link is what Dan posted above from DKB.

Dan, I added (DKB) so others realize that was from him and not you.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by rgcraig

The link is what Dan posted above from DKB.

Dan, I added (DKB) so others realize that was from him and not you.

That's fine. I read it here.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by Pressing-On

That's fine. I read it here.

After DA posted it, I deleted the link and my post.

[DAII]

PO, I remember the last time I saw a prayer cloth was the very last time I heard my dad pray aloud ... a week before his death. The assistant pastor decided to annoint the cloth and the entire church prayed over it ... after my dad had been taken out of ICU .... and it was brought to his room by my mom.

My Dad, with all of his internal organs failing, pneumonia and multiple fractures in his spine grabbed it and simply prayed ... crying out .... "God have your way! Do with me as you will."
I later realized he was trusting fully on his Maker.

When mom left the room ... I asked him if he had given up. He said "Dan, My mind is willing, my body is not. I am tired".

Days later he passed.

No amount of faith focusing .... which sounds like mind control .... on an inanimate object or obedience to a formula or pet conviction will manipulate a Sovereign God.

[Pressing-On]

Originally Posted by DAII

PO, I remember the last time I saw a prayer cloth was the very last time I heard my dad pray aloud ... a week before his death. The assistant pastor decided to annoint the cloth and the entire church prayed over it ... after my dad had been taken out of ICU .... and it was brought to his room by my mom.

My Dad, with all of his internal organs failing, pneumonia and multiple fractures in his spine grabbed it and simply prayed ... crying out .... "God have your way! Do with me as you will."
I later realized he was trusting fully on his Maker.

When mom left the room ... I asked him if he had given up. He said "Dan, My mind is willing, my body is not. I am tired".

Days later he passed.

No amount of faith focusing .... which sounds like mind control .... on an inanimate object or obedience to a formula or pet conviction will manipulate a Sovereign God.

Amen!!!!

Very touching story. Thank you for sharing it, Dan.

[rgcraig]

Originally Posted by DAII

PO, I remember the last time I saw a prayer cloth was the very last time I heard my dad pray aloud ... a week before his death. The assistant pastor decided to annoint the cloth and the entire church prayed over it ... after my dad had been taken out of ICU .... and it was brought to his room by my mom.

My Dad, with all of his internal organs failing, pneumonia and multiple fractures in his spine grabbed it and simply prayed ... crying out .... "God have your way! Do with me as you will."
I later realized he was trusting fully on his Maker.

When mom left the room ... I asked him if he had given up. He said "Dan, My mind is willing, my body is not. I am tired".

Days later he passed.

No amount of faith focusing .... which sounds like mind control .... on an inanimate object or obedience to a formula or pet conviction will manipulate a Sovereign God.

That is the bottom line!

[BobDylan]

Originally Posted by DAII

PO, I remember the last time I saw a prayer cloth was the very last time I heard my dad pray aloud ... a week before his death. The assistant pastor decided to annoint the cloth and the entire church prayed over it ... after my dad had been taken out of ICU .... and it was brought to his room by my mom.

My Dad, with all of his internal organs failing, pneumonia and multiple fractures in his spine grabbed it and simply prayed ... crying out .... "God have your way! Do with me as you will."
I later realized he was trusting fully on his Maker.

When mom left the room ... I asked him if he had given up. He said "Dan, My mind is willing, my body is not. I am tired".

Days later he passed.

I'm moved and sorry to hear about your dad...

Originally Posted by DAII

No amount of faith focusing .... which sounds like mind control .... on an inanimate object or obedience to a formula or pet conviction will manipulate a Sovereign God.

A bunch of hoorah here Dan... faith focusing = "mind control"? "formula"? "pet conviction"? "Manipulating God"? I guess the "holy magic shadow layers" of Acts 5 were practicing "mind control" and trying to "manipulate God"? You're showing your hand Dan... you are the primary one who uses this kind of language to describe the current "hair phenomenon"... It seems to smack of internal turmoil and bitterness, toward something, I don't know what. I hope that is not the case. See, even in disagreement, I have met on middle ground with most everyone else on here and have been engaging sensibly with all.... except you. You're showing your hand Dan, you're showing your hand...