For those that left the UPC...

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Yet another no tonguer example.

Act 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized. And more of that laying on of hands in order than another person receive the Holy Ghost.

You mean, another example where tongues or no tongues are not mentioned either way. Actually, you are hereby arguing from silence. I would not prove tongues with this example or Acts 8, remember. but this example does not say they did not speak in tongues, so you cannot use this as proof that some never spoke in tongues when they were Spirit filled. That is my point.

[mfblume]

Scholarly witness of Acts 8 and tongues:

GILL:

Act 8:18 And when Simon saw,.... Whence it appears, that the Holy Ghost, or his gifts, which were received by imposition of hands, were something visible and discernible; and so something external, and not internal; otherwise they would have been out of Simon's reach, and would not have fallen under his notice; but he saw,

that through laying on of the apostles' hands, the Holy Ghost was given: he saw, that upon this men began to prophesy, and to speak with divers tongues they had never learned, and to work miracles, cure men of their diseases, and the like: and when he observed this,


CLARKE:

Act 8:18
When Simon saw, etc. - By hearing these speak with different tongues and work miracles.


BARNES:

Act 8:18
Simon saw ... - That is, he witnessed the extraordinary effects, the power of speaking in a miraculous manner, etc. See the notes on Act_8:15.

Concerning receiving the Spirit: (3) it was something that was discernible by “external effects”; for Simon saw Act_8:18 that this was done by the laying on of hands.


ROBERTSON:

Act 8:18
When Simon saw (Idōn de ho Simōn). This participle (second aorist active of horaō) shows plainly that those who received the gift of the Holy Spirit spoke with tongues. Simon now saw power transferred to others. Hence he was determined to get this new power.

None of these guys were UPC. Hmmm....

[jfrog]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Scholarly witness of Acts 8 and tongues:

GILL:

Act 8:18 And when Simon saw,.... Whence it appears, that the Holy Ghost, or his gifts, which were received by imposition of hands, were something visible and discernible; and so something external, and not internal; otherwise they would have been out of Simon's reach, and would not have fallen under his notice; but he saw,

that through laying on of the apostles' hands, the Holy Ghost was given: he saw, that upon this men began to prophesy, and to speak with divers tongues they had never learned, and to work miracles, cure men of their diseases, and the like: and when he observed this,


CLARKE:

Act 8:18
When Simon saw, etc. - By hearing these speak with different tongues and work miracles.


BARNES:

Act 8:18
Simon saw ... - That is, he witnessed the extraordinary effects, the power of speaking in a miraculous manner, etc. See the notes on Act_8:15.

Concerning receiving the Spirit: (3) it was something that was discernible by “external effects”; for Simon saw Act_8:18 that this was done by the laying on of hands.


ROBERTSON:

Act 8:18
When Simon saw (Idōn de ho Simōn). This participle (second aorist active of horaō) shows plainly that those who received the gift of the Holy Spirit spoke with tongues. Simon now saw power transferred to others. Hence he was determined to get this new power.

None of these guys were UPC. Hmmm....

I agree that there was something significant that happened there. This does not change the fact that that something significant only happened after an apostle journeyed there.

[seekerman]

Originally Posted by mfblume

Scholarly witness of Acts 8 and tongues:

GILL:

Act 8:18 And when Simon saw,.... Whence it appears, that the Holy Ghost, or his gifts, which were received by imposition of hands, were something visible and discernible; and so something external, and not internal; otherwise they would have been out of Simon's reach, and would not have fallen under his notice; but he saw,

that through laying on of the apostles' hands, the Holy Ghost was given: he saw, that upon this men began to prophesy, and to speak with divers tongues they had never learned, and to work miracles, cure men of their diseases, and the like: and when he observed this,


CLARKE:

Act 8:18
When Simon saw, etc. - By hearing these speak with different tongues and work miracles.


BARNES:

Act 8:18
Simon saw ... - That is, he witnessed the extraordinary effects, the power of speaking in a miraculous manner, etc. See the notes on Act_8:15.

Concerning receiving the Spirit: (3) it was something that was discernible by “external effects”; for Simon saw Act_8:18 that this was done by the laying on of hands.


ROBERTSON:

Act 8:18
When Simon saw (Idōn de ho Simōn). This participle (second aorist active of horaō) shows plainly that those who received the gift of the Holy Spirit spoke with tongues. Simon now saw power transferred to others. Hence he was determined to get this new power.

None of these guys were UPC. Hmmm....

Why turn to extra-biblical sources? Why not just stick with scripture?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by seekerman

Why turn to extra-biblical sources? Why not just stick with scripture?

To show it is not arguing from silence, since you missed my point which agreed with these men, when I did not argue from silence but from Simon's reaction. It is showing that it is far from arguing from silence, as no reputable scholar would do such a thing.