UPC Pastor Convicted of Slander in Pulpit! - Page 43

DAII · #1 07-15-2010, 07:50 AM

In this church governance paradigm ... espoused by Fogarty and his peers ... the pastor is supreme over the evangelist ... over all ...

He is also the prophet ... in addition to the high priest of the OT.

Quote:

"Ezekiel referred to the pastor as a "watchman" (Ezekiel 3:17). The Scripture plainly states that the pastor has the responsibility to set the standard (Ezekiel 44:23)"

Here Ezekiel was not speaking of a pastor, or even high priest, but to the prophet. This type of faulty exegesis, prooftexting and legalism has its reward .... -500k.

drummerboy_dave · #2 07-15-2010, 08:03 AM

It's a wonderful article describing the corporate ideology, but I believe it to be over bearing and flawed.

Everyone has personal convictions which are level 1. unless the person with the convictions are the pastor, which are level 2.

Any person who wants to be used by the pastor, must fully align everyone of his convictions with his pastor. (major flaw)

There is no teaching in this article about what biblicle holiness is which is level 3. Instead it gives a person who has level 1 convictions, but because he is the pastor they become level 2 by default the ability to define level 3.

DAII · #3 07-15-2010, 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave

It's a wonderful article describing the corporate ideology, but I believe it to be over bearing and flawed.

Most definitely a manifesto of the corporate ideology.

drummerboy_dave · #4 07-15-2010, 08:33 AM

Dan, that is where I disagree. I don't believe we are to go to that extreme. We are to teach truth in love. Labels are not love.

DAII · #5 07-15-2010, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drummerboy_dave

Dan, that is where I disagree. I don't believe we are to go to that extreme. We are to teach truth in love. Labels are not love.

Not saying I approve or disagree with the label of cult but rather as long as this is the ideology it will bring opportunity to those that have and will continue to do so.

When we are all, even secularly, to accept that showing a knee or wearing a bikini is fornication while justifying a second marriage on these grounds ... the label will seem apropos to many.

allstate1 · #6 07-15-2010, 08:44 AM

Almost 40 years in a UPC chirch and I have yet to understand how holiness in the Bible means dress code! I read it as meaning a lifestyle!!

drummerboy_dave · #7 07-15-2010, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAII

Not say I approve or disagree with the label of cult but rather as long as this is the ideology it will bring opportunity to those that have and will continue to do.

Question: Do those that hand out labels at every opportunity serve God or their agenda?

I don't follow men who subscribe to the type of ideology written in the manifesto. That is each person's responsability to themselves. The choices are well documented and obvious to those who will seek it out. At what point do we pick up and move on?

missourimary · #8 07-15-2010, 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allstate1

Almost 40 years in a UPC chirch and I have yet to understand how holiness in the Bible means dress code! I read it as meaning a lifestyle!!

Me, too. Our dress may be a part of that lifestyle to a degree. But dress is not holiness in and of itself.

Falla39 · #9 07-15-2010, 09:33 AM

[QUOTE=missourimary;940440]Me, too. Our dress may be a part of that lifestyle to a degree. But dress is not holiness in and of itself.QUOTE]

Amen!
Some people do the things they do, because they feel it is
the right thing to do, perhaps to please others.

Others do the things they do, because of who they are!

drummerboy_dave · #10 07-15-2010, 09:13 AM

You added this after I responded....

Quote:

This is not from an eccentric, rogue evangelist with honorary doctorates from diploma mills and who teaches extra bibilical liturgical practice but the theology of a member/bishop of the inner sanctum.

I have a sidenote that some may find interesting. According to my interpetation of the manifesto, an evangelist, (even one with such high credentials TIC), has no authority or authorization to teach "holiness" to any church, yet when someone sells out to the corporate machine, and preaches the "approved doctrine" they are paraded around the country to teach holiness. Maybe some folks need to chew on that for awhile. The contradiction is tremendous!