Command or commandments?

[Rev.Richmond]

Originally Posted by Godsdrummer

What exactly does this passage mean?

Eph 4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
Eph 4:12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

Paul is telling us that God gave to the church some... the list is what has become the "five fold ministry" to many. Yet this list is nowhere repeated anywhere throughout scripture.

What was that passaged Richmond quoted in the 'mouth of two or three witness" Yet this five fold ministry has become the foundation of the church heigharcy.

Yet in this same book Paul list the heigharcy of the church and does not put in the so called "five fold ministry".

Eph 5:21 Submitting yourselves one to another in the fear of God.
Eph 5:22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
Eph 5:23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
Eph 5:24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing.
Eph 5:25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;

Now before you go off too bad at me, I want you to concider this.

Joh 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;
Joh 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
Joh 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Act 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Do we have a differant holy ghost than the "so called ministry" ? Why then do we need to have them instruct us as to how to be saved? Or rather stay saved. You quote this passage in Epehsians and build up the rest of your doctrine that God intended to have overseers over his kingdom and I don't see it.

Paul further gives us teaching on the gifts of the spirit and how they are to work within the church, for exhortation and reproof, and it is not from a preacher behind a podium. I corintians 12.

1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.

How can every man profit from the manifestation of the spirit when there is a dictator between "every man" and the manifistation of the spirit?

The spirit is subject unto the prophet.

A dictator? Sounds like you have had some men in your life that were not quite fulfilling the call of a pastor very well. No wonder it's hard to submit to a man of God or even see the need to; real men of God are not dictators at all. I think it futile, though I could inundate a post with the WHY we need spiritual leadership and accountability in our lives. God established it like that for a reason. Just because you or I may not understandy why, we do know He is looking out for us.
I may later bring more complete thoughts to the table and expound on more of your post; i hate just leaving most of it untouched, but I must for right now. I really need

Hope your day is great.