Homosexuality ... How do the "Advocates" deal...

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Socialite

TJJJ, I wasn't offended or taking occasion of an insult. The Stoneking reference was a humorous sarcasm not aimed at you, aimed at the concept.

Regarding 1 Cor being about headship,authority... this is not universally accepted. Not even by some Egalitarian theologians like Fee. But I see your point.

Outside of that, I'm not sure I see much of the rest of your point. 1 Cor indicates God's design for humankind. We fall short of that in so many areas of times through divorce, death, abandonment, drunkenness, abuse, etc... So this brokenness in the home is universal.

I live in a high-dense area of the country where homosexuality is more common (the phenom of city migration where oppressed groups move to for safety), I think we would need to see more research into violent homes. Honestly, it's the first I've heard of it being a unique problem to homosexuals -- and I can't recall any of my gay friends in the past couple years talking about domestic violence.

So I have 3 things:

1) The Text is not about having two heads, no heads or one head. There's more we can discuss about that. So to launch from this point, I can't even find enough there to do that.

2) The Text is to/for believers and followers of The Way.

3) Realization that the brokenness of homes and God's order is universal, not just reserved for homosexuals.

4) Really don't accept the idea that this is unique to homosexuals, or that there is some dramatic increase in rates... and at the end of the day, not sure that even matters.

LOL We seem to be leapfrogging over each others posts, so forgive me if all is not in order.

I agree with what you say about violence, drunkeness and etc,... this is a universal problem.

I do want to clarify something, just for sake of this discussion. Then we can move on. I am not condoning or condemning homosexuality on this thread. What I am asking is ... What are the observations of those who advocate homosexuality regarding the headship verse. You are helping me to see other angles that will hopefully help as I deal in various situations. I continue to have my own personal stand on this issue, but I am curious as to how the "other" side views it. Again, no offense intended.

Now,...

It does seem strange to me that you have not seen the violence in those homosexual couples you are aquainted with. I have seen it almost universally so far. But this may be just because that may be why they are seeking help for conflict and those that have it together do not come in.

It also seems to me that most of the ones that I dealt with have a Christian background of one flavor or another. Some are even Apostolic/ Pentecostal. The turmoil in their lives is huge. I have yet to see one of those couples go for the long haul. 3 years or more. Zero! Zip! The turmoil in their relationship is huge.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by Socialite

TJJJ, I wasn't offended or taking occasion of an insult. The Stoneking reference was a humorous sarcasm not aimed at you, aimed at the concept.

Regarding 1 Cor being about headship,authority... this is not universally accepted. Not even by some Egalitarian theologians like Fee. But I see your point.

Outside of that, I'm not sure I see much of the rest of your point. 1 Cor indicates God's design for humankind. We fall short of that in so many areas of times through divorce, death, abandonment, drunkenness, abuse, etc... So this brokenness in the home is universal.

I live in a high-dense area of the country where homosexuality is more common (the phenom of city migration where oppressed groups move to for safety), I think we would need to see more research into violent homes. Honestly, it's the first I've heard of it being a unique problem to homosexuals -- and I can't recall any of my gay friends in the past couple years talking about domestic violence.

So I have 3 things:

1) The Text is not about having two heads, no heads or one head. There's more we can discuss about that. So to launch from this point, I can't even find enough there to do that.

2) The Text is to/for believers and followers of The Way.

3) Realization that the brokenness of homes and God's order is universal, not just reserved for homosexuals.

4) Really don't accept the idea that this is unique to homosexuals, or that there is some dramatic increase in rates... and at the end of the day, not sure that even matters.

I would like to contest your statement regarding headship. The text of I cor 11 is all about headship. Paul is emphatic in this chapter about that very thing. Proper authority is what makes a successful home, church, and business. God is a God of authority. The headship issue comes all the way from the Garden of Eden, (as Coadie pointed out).

Now you ask what does that have to do with two heads? Or even no headship? Everything. In a Biblical based family, there is the MAN... the head. Then there is his WOMAN, the help meet. Together, with the man being the final authority in the home, they lead the children.

Maybe what I should have asked was..

How do the advocates of homosexuality reconcile this with their concept of a Christian home?

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

How do the advocates of homosexuality reconcile this with their concept of a Christian home?

What do you mean? Who are the "advocates" trying to reconcile this with a concept of a Christian home?

Are you referring to Christians who endorse and support homosexuality as a non-sinful way of living life?

[onefaith2]

Interesting thoughts.. It will be interesting to see the responses. I think I will participate as an observer

[aegsm76]

Great thought. I never thought about applying this verse to this issue.
It makes some sense, though.
I will have to think and study on this.
Thanks for the thought!

[coadie]

Genesis 3

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
After the curse, woman by temperament was created to bond to a leader. Women don't like indecisive, whining, self doubting sissies.

Many arguments come from failure to to have ones expectations met. Many expectations are not valid. Pilgrim women didn't date guys that drove a convertible. It would have been an unrealistic expectation.

You hit on a great point about turnover. The high rate of homosexuality promisciousness stems from quickly finding out that some expections will never be met.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by coadie

Genesis 3

16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
After the curse, woman by temperament was created to bond to a leader. Women don't like indecisive, whining, self doubting sissies.

Many arguments come from failure to to have ones expectations met. Many expectations are not valid. Pilgrim women didn't date guys that drove a convertible. It would have been an unrealistic expectation.

You hit on a great point about turnover. The high rate of homosexuality promisciousness stems from quickly finding out that some expections will never be met.

It does appear, and I agree with the opinion, that this is dealing with headship in the home. Again, how does the homosexual household deal with this?

[coadie]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

It does appear, and I agree with the opinion, that this is dealing with headship in the home. Again, how does the homosexual household deal with this?

I will use 2 ideas. One is role playing and the other is mimicry. When kids are studied in play time, they play roles they observed adults live. Our pastors boy is playing with drum sticks, preeching and trying to baptize various creatures.

One partner plays a role to attract the other partner but that creates attraction and doesn't fill their own needs. It gets a little complicated because large numbers of gays didn't mature out of healthy parental relationships. A distant dad or non existent dad is a common example. A young lad will be straight if raised by a dad to manhood. he can be like dad. If a boy is rejected, he may play out a fantasy with another male and never mature to manhood. He will more likely remain close to his mother.
Many lesbians have an unexplained hate for males. An outsider may see it as hurt and they hate males because they were rejected in a real or imagined way by daddy. It is a coping mechanism.

If I borrow an idea from Gary Smalley in Branson, the lack of attachment is often explained by uncovering their greatest fear. If a lesbian is fearing loss of a partner, they get tough, don't submit to prevent being hurt on the partner leaving as they always do. It becomes a predicted cycle.

[TJJJ]

Originally Posted by coadie

I will use 2 ideas. One is role playing and the other is mimicry. When kids are studied in play time, they play roles they observed adults live. Our pastors boy is playing with drum sticks, preeching and trying to baptize various creatures.

One partner plays a role to attract the other partner but that creates attraction and doesn't fill their own needs. It gets a little complicated because large numbers of gays didn't mature out of healthy parental relationships. A distant dad or non existent dad is a common example. A young lad will be straight if raised by a dad to manhood. he can be like dad. If a boy is rejected, he may play out a fantasy with another male and never mature to manhood. He will more likely remain close to his mother.
Many lesbians have an unexplained hate for males. An outsider may see it as hurt and they hate males because they were rejected in a real or imagined way by daddy. It is a coping mechanism.

If I borrow an idea from Gary Smalley in Branson, the lack of attachment is often explained by uncovering their greatest fear. If a lesbian is fearing loss of a partner, they get tough, don't submit to prevent being hurt on the partner leaving as they always do. It becomes a predicted cycle.

So are you saying that many homosexual men are that way from a disfunctional home?

Just trying to wrap my small brain around the discussion.

[coadie]

Originally Posted by TJJJ

So are you saying that many homosexual men are that way from a disfunctional home?

Just trying to wrap my small brain around the discussion.

Dr Nicolosi and Dr James Dobson both admit they have never councelled a gay male that could describe a good relationship with their father and a father that raised them to a manhoood he himself lived.