Which is More Biblical: Oneness or Triniarianism? - Page 10

mizpeh · #91 03-29-2008, 08:57 PM

Part 2

Dan,

Quote:

But there's more. There is an Old Testament context for that word, too. The word gnosis is a word from ginosko, it is used to translate the Old Testament word yadah, that word in the Old Testament speaks of a union of love. When you see yadah in the Hebrew Old Testament it can be ginosko that's translated in the Greek, it means to know. But it expresses a bond of love. For example, it says, "Adam knew his wife and she bore a son." It doesn't mean he knew who she was. He knew who she was all right, but he had an intimate love relationship with her. It says in Amos 3:2, "Israel only have I known." And what God means is they're the only people I know about? No. I have an intimate love bond with them, there's an intimacy there. The word know implies the union of love. In the case of Israel it had to do with election and grace. It was a bonding together in intimate love. Jesus said, "My sheep hear My voice and I know them. I have a bond of love." Jesus said, "Depart from Me, I never knew you...I had no bond of love with you." So there's a Jewish intent with the word as well as a sort of Gentile one. The Gentile intent is to speak of a deep surpassing mystical intimate communing love with Christ. And the Hebrew one expresses that union of love, that bond of love that extricably ties people together. And all of that is in the word TO KNOW.

Dan, I'm taught all the time by my pastor that "it's not about religion but about a relationship". Our relationship with God is built on way we get close to Him or the different ways we can get to know Him, like in prayer, worship, and reading His word.

I'm not sure why you are going into this deep study of the word, to know. Is this suppose to show me that I'm wrong for wanting to KNOW who God is not only in an intimate way but with my mind/understanding? You are giving one aspect of the word, to know. It also has a connotation of understanding as well. The intimate love aspect is usually used when speaking about sexual relations between men and women... Adam knew his wife, etc. I want to know (understand) who I serve and I want to know (love in an close relationship) who I serve. Understanding who I serve enables me to love who I serve in a more intimate way.

If we have a deep relationship with God will we not come to KNOW who he is? You may see some blurring in the doctrine of the Trinity and Oneness but I don't. You may see semantics at play but I don't. It's black and white to me. I want to know the truth about who I worship and who I'm praying to and who I'm being 'intimate' with.

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So carry on w/ your crusade to prove you know God better than a Trinitarian ... as it obviously important to corner the abstract concept of truth and make sure the right formula is said in baptism.

I'll straddle in Yaddahing him and pray others will seek this union despite the inability to fully explain everything about the mystery of godliness.

I can't explain everything about the incarnation. I'm not claiming to know everything about God. Knowing God is One is not an abstract concept of truth. You can find it in the plain reading of the OT. And I've said NOTHING about baptism.

You have just gone through your post deriding me for wanting to KNOW God for who He is while all the while you are using book knowledge of God's word through a deeper understanding of the original languages (which is great) to prove a point that you will come to KNOW God through a personal relationship apart from understanding who He is. It can't be done.

The Bible is not blurry on whether God is to be worshipped in three persons or one person. I suggest if you want to know God intimately you have to understand who He is.

SDG · #92 03-29-2008, 09:14 PM

Mizpeh,

I know you've spent a lot of time and effort on cutting up Trinitarian brethren's arguments and can't imagine the amount of time you've spent in studying a topic that obviously is important to you ... including setting them straight on who God is.

Yet ... I can't help but think that there are thousands of Trinitarians who believe Jesus is God that know him even more intimately then you and I .... in the various ways you've discussed.

Carry on my warrior friend ... hope it's worth it ...

I can't help but think when we go to heaven and partake w/ them that we'll chuckle at ourselves.

There is no shame or problem w/ studying ... I just wonder what God thinks about our attempts to define Him.

I'm not in the majority when it comes to this view ... perhaps ... as I saw during my brief tenure at CARM ... it's obviously everything to the Godhead ninjas.

Brother Price · #93 03-29-2008, 09:19 PM

We can know God and not know doctrine.

SDG · #94 03-29-2008, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Price

We can know God and not know doctrine.

There are folks who can't even read and have deep relationships w/ their Savior ... knowing Him in dimensions we have not.

However, this seems to be secondary to the Order of Godhead Flying Fists. JMO.

Brother Price · #95 03-29-2008, 09:22 PM

Head knowledge is never a match for a true heart felt relationship.

Jehoram · #96 03-29-2008, 09:24 PM

I just can't accept the following dogma:

One God, three persons, who are coequal, coexistant and coeternal.

It is simply not logical.

How can the Son be of the Father, yet equal?

How can the Son send the Spirit, yet be equal?

We know the man, Christ Jesus, was not eternal because the Word refers to Him as "begotten." His physical body had a beginning, so the coeternal aspect is out the window.

If all authority in Heaven and Earth was given to Jesus - who gave it? Given refers to a transfer of power, or at least a sharing. Who originally held it, and why didn't the supposed pre-existent son who was coeternal and coequal posses it?

Brother Price · #97 03-29-2008, 09:25 PM

AE, we do not know how many trinitarians believe...

Oh never mind. No time for talking walls.

Jehoram · #98 03-29-2008, 09:30 PM

My questions are sincere Bro Price.

We may not know how individual trinitarians believe, but we do knoiw what classic trinitarianism consists of. The question was simple. Are you Oneness or Trinitarian? Which do you believe is more Biblically accurate?

If find it odd that some of you, who often cite sola scriptura, are claiming "relationship over doctrine" in regard to this issue. I thought being scripturally right was everything to you?

How can there be room for variance of opinion on such an important topic as WHO IS GOD?

Praxeas · #99 03-29-2008, 09:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daniel Alicea

There are folks who can't even read and have deep relationships w/ their Savior ... knowing Him in dimensions we have not.

However, this seems to be secondary to the Order of Godhead Flying Fists. JMO.

They may not be able to read but that does not mean they don't know doctrine. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God.

Praxeas · #**100** 03-29-2008, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brother Price

Head knowledge is never a match for a true heart felt relationship.

Heart felt relationships are based on what you KNOW to be true though. God gave us a mind. He gave us a brain. He wants us to KNOW Him, not just have feelings for Him. We KNOW Him by knowing ABOUT Him. Same way if you have a boyfriend or girlfriend and want to get to know that person you spend time talking TO them and listening to what they are saying