Liturgical Worship - Do you like it?

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Antipas

...in vivid symbolism, I'd conclude. It's the nature of apocalyptic writing.

Apocalyptic writings made outside of visions are not the same as apocalyptic writings written about visions.

John actually saw four horsemen riding varying coloured horses!

[mfblume]

Originally Posted by Antipas

Remember, the Revelation is a piece of apocalyptic literature. John used heavy symbolism that the early church was quite familiar with. He described the crucified savior in all his power using symbols.

You mean GOD used imagery that the early church was familiar with, and John actually saw those symbols God gave to Him in his eyesight and repeated them in words.

Bro we just will not agree on this, I guess. But you seem to favour your view to support liturgy.

[Antipas]

Originally Posted by mfblume

You cannot directly see a form of God whatsoever! He is omnipresent, bro. Everywhere present, no where absent. Only a theophany can be seen, if anything. But theophanies are not in directly sightings of God. We would nto be able to see beyond the surface of our eyes if we were to see God physically due to his omnipresence.

Wow. You've got God all figured out Bro. Blume. lol

Have you considered that God may have a theophany by which he is manifest before the Hosts of Heaven upon the throne that John saw? Perhaps God can only be seen in such a manifestation. Therefore, though John may have seen God manifest in theophany upon the throne....John still didn't behold, "God", in his fullness because such would be impossible. In addition, should God choose to have a spiritual form of sorts, he is still omnipresent and omniscient. All of creation is before him and nothing is outside of his power.

Who said it was wrong to use symbols? Dumb things, like I think liturgy is (dumb in light of what Revelation was actually saying), are not necessarily "wrong". It's just wrong to say He did not see symbols and to say that Revelation sets the stage for how we should conduct a service and make it dogmatic as the liturgical churches have done.

Liturgy began as a practical tool by which the Scriptures were read and the congregation learned them through repeating them. It was done like that for centuries...most likely starting in early Oneness churches.

The point is that God wouldn't use liturgical and ceremonial worship as a fitting symbol of Heavenly adoration (assuming it's all just symbols) if he absolutely disdained liturgy.

[crakjak]

Originally Posted by El Predicador

Sure, schedule a formal move of God.

Don't Pentecostals schedule it every Sunday night at 6:30 PM? LOL

[nwlife]

Actually, I do like the liturgical at times, especially when I am feeling depressed. Every church has it's own form of liturgy.

Inadvertantly, in trying to bring a little of the traditional liturgy into the church I attend in order to save the attendance of some of our members, I think I ran off a few others.

My say is this, while liturgical style worship is great, it isn't needed at every service. One must just take stock of the local congregation and see what they would or would not be comfortable with- then try to find something in between.
I myself have started using responsive readings again from the psalms in our church, and plan to use the teen class I teach now to bring some scripture reading now and then. (Trying to find a way to bring our teens into active worship in the church, and feel a part of the church.)

[commonsense]

Originally Posted by Praxeas

What I mean is, when the entire services is so structured that you are going from one program to another...structured. It becomes mechanical when you are not allowed to just spend time freely worshiping

I agree. We had a different freedom of worship as I was growing up. It was in order and proper but still somehow there was a greater freedom.

Choruses selected and practiced in advance; the words projected on the wall<
I'm not against quality singing but it's seems to be more of a show or contest than worship.

[commonsense]

The song leader had a couple songs picked out but nothing was rehearsed.
It wasn't unusual for a request from someone in the congregation.

The service permitted the following of the spirit.

[Hoovie]

Hoovie enters the room.

Scuffles through carrying and swinging a golden mystery pot on chains... odors spew forth.

he leaves murmuring...

[Sherri]

Originally Posted by Stephen Hoover

Hoovie enters the room.

Scuffles through carrying and swinging a golden mystery pot on chains... odors spew forth.

he leaves murmuring...

I thought you had gotten modern and gotten rid of those chamber pots.

[Coffee99]

There can be a very sweet presence of the Lord and a great reverence for Him in a liturgical service. A liturgical service can be more complete and satisfying than repeated doses of whooping, which is a ritual in some apostolic services. Unless there is running and jumping, many don't feel like "we had a good service 'cause church was dead tonight."