Christian Perspectives Concerning the Law

[Socialite]

Don't tell me about Ecclesiastes. It is probably the one book that I have come nearest to memorizing.

Spare me the condescending attitude seen in that remark.

To your point about the Pentecostalism having moved on without me is correct. Pentecostalism came to the head of the way a few years ago, they chose one way, I have chosen another. I will not go the way that they have chosen, even if I am left all alone. Yet, I am not alone.

But why are you so centered on me? Nothing concerning these topics are about me. So, it is futile and foolish to center in on me. Let us return to the discussion, the topic at hand.

Oh, I see, because your not condescending at all? Egghead...

Your elitist, do-it-yourself attitude has a strong stench.

It got on you because of your expressed opinion about "eggheads" having nothing to contribute, when the irony is you'd be in the dark if it weren't for eggheads. That's when it became about you. It's YOUR opinion, very personal in nature toward other brothers.

Then you want to talk about condescending?

[Socialite]

Works everytime. I don't waste time exegeting or applying hermeneutics (gimmicky tools given to us by "eggheads").



May I recommend the Holy Ghost? The Holy Ghost is not only salvation but the same Spirit is also a teacher. Try him out for yourself. I'm not speaking arrogantly, I'm speaking as humbly and sincerely. Here's a scripture that you can hang your purse upon:

1Jo 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you:

That anointing spoken of here is the abiding Comforter, the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Christ. He is the teacher. It is He that will lead you and guide you (not into all facts which are natural) into all Truth (which is spiritual, the person of Christ Jesus.)

but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth,

Amen. I just said that.

and is no lie,

God has placed in His church the office of teachers. However, one needs not to be deceived by them if they have that Divine Unction within and abiding with them. They know by that same Spirit if it is a lie. They quietly reject it within themselves.

and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

Calling to mind the reciprocal indwelling of Christ...."if ye abide in me and my words abide in you...." Christ will, by His Word, teach, bringing to life the written word. The living Word will call to the written Word.

Maybe my ignorance is showing by so much speaking of these things. I might need to just shut up and not say anything else.

I have the Holy Spirit. In fact, I've spoken in tongues. Let's get that out of the way, lest you think I'm an ignorant brother.

Your quote of 1 John 2 as a way of saying "no one needs to teach you," if left interpreted literally does away with the entire function of the elders, the church's command to disciple, etc... The antagonists in 1 John are gnostics (learned that through some egghead historian). It's to these whom these false words concerning "anti-Christ" are directed. The Spirit is a great source of discernment, but that does not negate teaching and learning.

Facts lead the way to understanding, the Spirit to deeper understand and even true sophia (wisdom). We can't even communicate without facts. If facts aren't important, don't quote me that "every jot and tittle" garbage. If facts aren't important, then we are just a bunch of spiritual bodies floating around in an abstract realm about nothing in particular. Facts are extremely important. Though not the source of learning themselves, they are the road it comes on.

You actually don't come off as dim and dumb. But when you hold opinions like the one we are discussing, it definitely doesn't suit your otherwise bright self.

[Apprehended]

[QUOTE=Socialite;1013189]

I don't do KJV on account of the fact that it's a foreign language, and my handling with it can be sloppy.

Here's the verse in the ESV (both translations given to us by "eggheads"):

e

Now listen, you have no need of getting ugly. I did not call you a name. However, if you want to attribute to yourself the title of an "egghead," I will accommodate you. But, why be silly?

At that time Jesus declared, "I thank you, Father,(B) Lord of heaven and earth, that(C) you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and(D) revealed them to little children;

What do you think Jesus meant when he said this? To what was he referring?

What do I think that Jesus meant by this?

Seems simple enough to me. He was rejoicing in his Spirit that the Father had mercifully withheld the spiritual understand of the Word but revealed them to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

No mystery here. The elite in His day rejected the very beautiful teachings of Jesus which held great spiritual depth. The wise and prudent of his day were deaf, dumb and blind. They could neither see or hear. Unable to both see and hear, they were consequently dumb. One prophet called them dumb dogs that cannot bark.

Nevertheless, Jesus exulted in the knowledge that His disciples were getting the spiritual concepts contained in the letter of the Word (the little children, babes) while the wise and prudent got only the jot and tittle of the letter without an inkling of the spiritual understanding.

If there was anyone in the time of Jesus known as the "learned," it was the religious elite. I like how Mt 11 ends (egghead version):

"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly."

This scripture has no connection to the one that I quoted above. None.

You might need to go back to the KJV.

[Apprehended]

Originally Posted by Socialite

Oh, I see, because your not condescending at all? Egghead...

Your elitist, do-it-yourself attitude has a strong stench.

It got on you because of your expressed opinion about "eggheads" having nothing to contribute, when the irony is you'd be in the dark if it weren't for eggheads. That's when it became about you. It's YOUR opinion, very personal in nature toward other brothers.

Then you want to talk about condescending?

The Reformed are not my brothers.

btw, you are about to tire the "egghead" mantra. Furthermore, I did not use it in regard to you. So, why are you taking such offense to it.

"Elitist?" "Stench?"

Then there are other names elsewhere.

Why are you getting so ugly? I noticed that you became the same with with Bro. Blume. I am a bit dismayed by it. But why? There's no need in all of that. I speak the truth and you seem to take it personal and react very negatively. Are there any personal reasons behind such an attitude?

[Socialite]

Seems simple enough to me. He was rejoicing in his Spirit that the Father had mercifully withheld the spiritual understand of the Word but revealed them to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

No mystery here. The elite in His day rejected the very beautiful teachings of Jesus which held great spiritual depth. The wise and prudent of his day were deaf, dumb and blind. They could neither see or hear. Unable to both see and hear, they were consequently dumb. One prophet called them dumb dogs that cannot bark.

You continually construe Jesus' words as saying: "over here we have the educated, over here the dumb. The dumb people are the one's who hear what the Spirit is saying."

That's not it at all. What are "little children" and what "mysteries" are we talking about? (hint: KOG). Coming to Jesus is not an academic quest, it's the drawing of the Spirit (to those that hear -- his sheep). But we aren't talking about, in terms of learning, coming to Jesus. We are talking about the value in having men and women in each generation who devote themselves to their passion of studying the Bible. We are indebted to these people in how much more we understand the words of Jesus, what was meant/intended originally. Many people have made sloppy application from Jesus' words about things he never intended. And many Spirit-filled people have all had disagreements the same. The Spirit-alone is not where we end, it's where we begin.

[Socialite]

If there was anyone in the time of Jesus known as the "learned," it was the religious elite. I like how Mt 11 ends (egghead version):

"Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll learn to live freely and lightly."
This scripture has no connection to the one that I quoted above. None.

You might need to go back to the KJV.

You're right. It's only a few verses later -- same chapter. Same author. Part of the same prayer (vv25-30). Yup, no relation at all.

[Socialite]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

The Reformed are not my brothers.

btw, you are about to tire the "egghead" mantra. Furthermore, I did not use it in regard to you. So, why are you taking such offense to it.

"Elitist?" "Stench?"

Then there are other names elsewhere.

Why are you getting so ugly? I noticed that you became the same with with Bro. Blume. I am a bit dismayed by it. But why? There's no need in all of that. I speak the truth and you seem to take it personal and react very negatively. Are there any personal reasons behind such an attitude?

I take offense to it because they are my brothers.

You come on here as a do-it-yourself cowboy. Oneness people are too tainted. Eggheaded non-Appy's don't have spiritual understanding and can't contribute anything to your life (most ignorant thing you've said on AFF so far), and you consider yourself (so arrogantly) the exclusive bastion of all that is true.

So don't get to feeling like you are being persecuted here. And let's not try to form an indictment against me by piling Blume on it. I've had MANY interactions with Blume, not just the most recent one, and often we've been able to interact just fine (until he throws a fit jk).

[Apprehended]

[QUOTE=Apprehended;1013187]

Now why do you intentionally misquote or misrepresent me? Are you not actually reading what I've said in previous posts.

In no way have I in the least intimated contrary to these things that you have mentioned here. Especially have I not mentioned that there is no need of Elders and teachers in the church. I posted again what I said above. Now read it, please. Thank you.

I will quote it again here:

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Apprehended

God has placed in His church the office of teachers. However, one needs not to be deceived by them if they have that Divine Unction within and abiding with them. They know by that same Spirit if it is a lie. They quietly reject it within themselves.

There is no need in continuing a dumb discussion. If you are going to say that I said something, don't misrepresent it. Makes life a bit uneasy....especially if you carry an ugly spirit with it too.

btw, simply because someone speaks in tongues does not in the least indicate that they have the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of TRUTH. TRUTH is Jesus Christ. Where there is ERROR, the Spirit of Truth is absent. I've heard devils talk in tongues. There was no Holy Ghost. I've heard people with every sort of demonic Spirit that they called TRUTH speak in tongues. Sorry. Your bragging of having spoke in tongues is not in the least impressive.

[Socialite]

[QUOTE=Apprehended;1013223][QUOTE=Apprehended;1013187]

Now why do you intentionally misquote or misrepresent me? Are you not actually reading what I've said in previous posts.

In no way have I in the least intimated contrary to these things that you have mentioned here. Especially have I not mentioned that there is no need of Elders and teachers in the church. I posted again what I said above. Now read it, please. Thank you.

I will quote it again here:

There is no need in continuing a dumb discussion. If you are going to say that I said something, don't misrepresent it. Makes life a bit uneasy....especially if you carry an ugly spirit with it too.

btw, simply because someone speaks in tongues does not in the least indicate that they have the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the Spirit of TRUTH. TRUTH is Jesus Christ. Where there is ERROR, the Spirit of Truth is absent. I've heard devils talk in tongues. There was no Holy Ghost. I've heard people with every sort of demonic Spirit that they called TRUTH speak in tongues. Sorry. Your bragging of having spoke in tongues is not in the least impressive.

So not only must they talk in tongues to be saved, but now they have to agree with you and your version of truth? What all is contained in Truth?

Or were you saying all that to minimize my Spirit baptism as a qualification to this discussion? I wasn't bragging, but you've emphasized over-and-over how critical that is. And you want to call me condescending and tell ME I have an ugly spirit... this is entertaining.

[Apprehended]

[QUOTE=Socialite;1013213]Seems simple enough to me. He was rejoicing in his Spirit that the Father had mercifully withheld the spiritual understand of the Word but revealed them to those who have ears to hear and eyes to see.

No mystery here. The elite in His day rejected the very beautiful teachings of Jesus which held great spiritual depth. The wise and prudent of his day were deaf, dumb and blind. They could neither see or hear. Unable to both see and hear, they were consequently dumb. One prophet called them dumb dogs that cannot bark.

You continually construe Jesus' words as saying: "over here we have the educated, over here the dumb. The dumb people are the one's who hear what the Spirit is saying."

Are you ever confused or WHAT?

It seems that I am wasting my time with you. Have you read anything that I've said?

Did I say anything about the "dumb" people who hear what the Spirit is saying?

GOOD GRIEF!!!!!!

That's not it at all. What are "little children" and what "mysteries" are we talking about? (hint: KOG). Coming to Jesus is not an academic quest, it's the drawing of the Spirit (to those that hear -- his sheep).

Did I say anything about an academic test? I'm beginning you are so far out in lalala land as to be totally untethered from reality.

But we aren't talking about, in terms of learning, coming to Jesus. We are talking about the value in having men and women in each generation who devote themselves to their passion of studying the Bible. We are indebted to these people in how much more we understand the words of Jesus, what was meant/intended originally. Many people have made sloppy application from Jesus' words about things he never intended. And many Spirit-filled people have all had disagreements the same. The Spirit-alone is not where we end, it's where we begin.

Wrong again.

What is begun in the Spirit must continue in the Spirit. All the education in the world will not do what a moment in the presence of God will do for a man in but a few words when His understanding is opened.

The thing that Jesus was ultimately getting at was that the wise and prudent are hindered by a Spirit of pride which prevents them from true wisdom. True wisdom comes from humility of mind and not from scholastic achievement being nothing more than accumulations of facts and some degree of rationale in assimilating abstract in the natural. This is what Jesus was referring to the wise and the prudent of this world. Pride prevents. Nevertheless, like the proverbial camel through the eye of the needle, all things are possible with God.

I really don't see much need in following this line of discussion any further, we are going nowhere very rapidly.