All Trinitarians are Lost!!!!!!!!!!!

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by hometown guy

Doesn't matter how they want to describe it they still believe in 3 gods.

Yet you would be hard pressed to find a trinitarian who would embrace the notion they believe in three gods. The word person comes from The Latin word "persona".

"Persona is the Latin word for the masks used in the Greek drama. It meant that the actor was heard and his identity recognized by others through the sounds that issued from the open mask mouth. From it the word 'person' emerged to express the idea of a human being who meant something, who represented something, and who seemed to have some defined connectedness with others by action or affects. (We still use 'person' to connote this: we say of an infant who begins to show awareness of self in relation to others, 'He's becoming a person.') A person makes himself known, felt, taken in by others, through his particular roles and their functions. Some of his personae--his masks--are readily detachable and put aside, but others become fused with his skin and bone."
(Helen Harris Perlman, Persona: Social Role and Personality. Univ. of Chicago Press, 1986)

In that context to say God is three persons would actually fit our "manifestations". One actor wearing three different masks. One God manifesting Himself to us in three different ways.

[hometown guy]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

Yet you would be hard pressed to find a trinitarian who would embrace the notion they believe in three gods. The word person comes from The Latin word "persona".

"Persona is the Latin word for the masks used in the Greek drama. It meant that the actor was heard and his identity recognized by others through the sounds that issued from the open mask mouth. From it the word 'person' emerged to express the idea of a human being who meant something, who represented something, and who seemed to have some defined connectedness with others by action or affects. (We still use 'person' to connote this: we say of an infant who begins to show awareness of self in relation to others, 'He's becoming a person.') A person makes himself known, felt, taken in by others, through his particular roles and their functions. Some of his personae--his masks--are readily detachable and put aside, but others become fused with his skin and bone."
(Helen Harris Perlman, Persona: Social Role and Personality. Univ. of Chicago Press, 1986)

In that context to say God is three persons would actually fit our "manifestations". One actor wearing three different masks. One God manifesting Himself to us in three different ways.

Oh good! So trinatarians believe Jesus is the father then!

[Farfel]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

The problem of course with the use of some of the scriptures being used is that NO trinitarian I have ever met or had go through our new converts class actually believes in three literal Gods. Now, sure...the logical conclusion to applying the tenets of the trinitarian doctrine produces what must in actuality be 3 gods, but those who believe it see God as still one.

The difference is that most trinitarians see God as one along the lines of a corporation being one depsite having multiple departments under that one roof that operate seperately from one another. We Oneness tend to see God as One in terms of being literally a single absolutely monadic being. One being, filling three primary roles.

Either way they would say one god. The trinitarian doesn't truly believe in three gods, even though that is the ultimate sum of their description of the seperate "persons" of the Godhead.

Nevertheless, I don't think for a moment that trinitarians are going to hell over not understanding the Godhead. Theological minds far brighter than any on this forum have been unable to understand and "crack the code" of the Godhead for 2000 years and I doubt they are all going to split hell wide open over it.

You are absolutely correct. No trinitarian believes in 3 literal Gods.

[Steve Epley]

Originally Posted by Farfel

You are absolutely correct. No trinitarian believes in 3 literal Gods.

They deny it but yes their doctrine forces this consequence upon them.

[deacon blues]

Originally Posted by Nitehawk013

The problem of course with the use of some of the scriptures being used is that NO trinitarian I have ever met or had go through our new converts class actually believes in three literal Gods. Now, sure...the logical conclusion to applying the tenets of the trinitarian doctrine produces what must in actuality be 3 gods, but those who believe it see God as still one.

The difference is that most trinitarians see God as one along the lines of a corporation being one depsite having multiple departments under that one roof that operate seperately from one another. We Oneness tend to see God as One in terms of being literally a single absolutely monadic being. One being, filling three primary roles.

Either way they would say one god. The trinitarian doesn't truly believe in three gods, even though that is the ultimate sum of their description of the seperate "persons" of the Godhead.

Nevertheless, I don't think for a moment that trinitarians are going to hell over not understanding the Godhead. Theological minds far brighter than any on this forum have been unable to understand and "crack the code" of the Godhead for 2000 years and I doubt they are all going to split hell wide open over it.

I've heard both OPs and trinnies use the water metaphor (liquid, vapor, solid) to support their view of the Godhead. Most of the time it is semantics.

I firmly believe in one God. I can acknowledge there is a language of distinction that Jesus uses when speaking of the Father and the Spirit. The apostles continue that language in the openings of their letters. I have used and heard tortured explanations for Jesus praying in Gethsemane, on the cross, for His many references to the Father as though He is someone other than Himself.

The truth is that there are scriptures that are challenging to trinitarian doctrine and there are passages that are difficult for ops.

But when you ask the garden variety trinnie, he/she will tell you when they get to heaven they will see one on the throne. They will tell you that Christianity and their Christianity is all about Jesus.

I think ANYONE who claims to have this incomprehensible God figured out is at best naive and at worst arrogant.

[John Hamilton]

Originally Posted by deacon blues

I've heard both OPs and trinnies use the water metaphor (liquid, vapor, solid) to support their view of the Godhead. Most of the time it is semantics.

I firmly believe in one God. I can acknowledge there is a language of distinction that Jesus uses when speaking of the Father and the Spirit. The apostles continue that language in the openings of their letters. I have used and heard tortured explanations for Jesus praying in Gethsemane, on the cross, for His many references to the Father as though He is someone other than Himself.

The truth is that there are scriptures that are challenging to trinitarian doctrine and there are passages that are difficult for ops.

But when you ask the garden variety trinnie, he/she will tell you when they get to heaven they will see one on the throne. They will tell you that Christianity and their Christianity is all about Jesus.

I think ANYONif they have never been baptized in Jesus name who claims to have this incomprehensible God figured out is at best naive and at worst arrogant.

Yes, but what if they have never been baptized in Jesus name? This is where the dividing line really shows to me. They can claim they believe I one God but if they've been baptized in the titles then they ate not Apostolic!

[Amanah]

Could OPs define God as One Spirit with 3 personas, if persona is defined as a role? Because God does play different roles, correct?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyposta...y_and_religion)
The Christian view of the Trinity is often described as a view of one God existing in three distinct hypostases/personae/persons. The Latin "persona" is not the same as the English "person" but is a broader term that includes the meaning of the English "persona."

[navygoat1998]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Could OPs define God as One Spirit with 3 personas, if persona is defined as a role? Because God does play different roles, correct?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyposta...y_and_religion)
The Christian view of the Trinity is often described as a view of one God existing in three distinct hypostases/personae/persons. The Latin "persona" is not the same as the English "person" but is a broader term that includes the meaning of the English "persona."

See this is the problem the created is trying to define the Creator. That's not correct thinking.

I don't need to define the Godhead, I have need for the Godhead to define and change me.

[Praxeas]

Originally Posted by Amanah

Could OPs define God as One Spirit with 3 personas, if persona is defined as a role? Because God does play different roles, correct?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyposta...y_and_religion)
The Christian view of the Trinity is often described as a view of one God existing in three distinct hypostases/personae/persons. The Latin "persona" is not the same as the English "person" but is a broader term that includes the meaning of the English "persona."

I don't believe that what we have is merely playing roles

I believe the Son was a real Son, a real human and a real Person. Yes I believe God was not playing a role but I do believe God became that human. He became the Son.

He wasn't pretending and it was not a mere role or role playing

[Nitehawk013]

What motivates one to even WANT to think that so much of CHristianity is lost and going to hell over the godhead? What is it that makes one go so crazy over things like that? Is it pride maybe? The very human desire to be able to say you are "better" than someone else?